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Trade Rumors Involving the Jazz

IMO there's one really big bullet left to be dodged this season, and that's trading for John Collins.

If we bring him in, he's obviously a big minute starter. And he will immediately end the All Star Lauri Era. Hear me out.

Collins would likely take over the high pick setter / roll man role from Kessler and push Walker back to the bench. The only way these two can co-exist in the same starting lineup is if Collins stands in the corner in a spacing-heavy, small-usage modern PF role, as he's certainly no SF. And I see him throwing a tantrum if it comes to that, as it's precisely the role he's trying to get away from in Atlanta. He wants touches, he wants to be a lob finisher. That's what brought him success early in his career.

Also, that three big lineup would feature Lauri in a straight up SF role, and that's a bad idea - a big part of his success this season has been punishing smaller defenders near the basket. We're already seeing less of that now that Kessler is clogging the paint to an extent, and it would only get more pronounced with Collins (and his defender) hanging near the dunker's spot too. You can talk about Markkanen as a "perimeter big" as much as you want, but the fact is that the only real advantage he has there is shooting over smaller guys. In other words, the same limiting role both Chicago (and to a lesser extent Cleveland) used him in. We don't want that now that we've seen what he can do when he roams around. As a pure SF, playing with two other bigs, he wouldn't be able to drive past many of his defenders and there wouldn't be space for that either as long as Kessler remains a non-shooter who can't draw his defender away from the hoop.

By necessity, Lauri would become even more of an opportunistic scorer than he is now, surviving on other peoples' scraps.

I'm not saying no to a three big lineup as a basic idea (the current iteration is not the real thing, as Olynyk plays much smaller than he is), but the guy we need to complement Lauri and Kessler in that scenario needs to be a better outside shooter than Collins and someone who doesn't need the ball but is comfortable spacing the floor in the corner. Collins is a square peg in a round hole. Lauri has a natural tendency to start floating on the weak side and disappearing if he senses the court is badly spaced, and at this point, we want to avoid a situation like that at all costs because it would be a gigantic waste. He should never again be used in such a narrow way.

So, to sum up... would we be comfortable benching Kessler in favor of Collins? Will Kessler develop a jump shot? Is it even essential for this team that Lauri remains a 20+ point scorer? These are some of the questions that need to be answered. Just trading for Collins (and his stupid contract) and hoping for the best doesn't make sense.
 
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Here's a thought which someone already had. But if the Jazz somehow get Wemby then you have Kessler, Wemby, Markkannen as three of your starters that would be unbeatable.
 
IMO there's one really big bullet left to be dodged this season, and that's trading for John Collins.

If we bring him in, he's obviously a big minute starter. And he will immediately end the All Star Lauri Era.

Collins would likely take over the high pick setter / roll man role from Kessler and push Walker back to the bench. The only way these two can co-exist in the same starting lineup is if Collins stands in the corner in a spacing-heavy, small-usage modern PF role, as he's certainly no SF. And I see him throwing a tantrum if it comes to that, as it's precisely the role he's trying to get away from in Atlanta. He wants touches, he wants to be a lob finisher. That's what brought him success early in his career.

Also, that three big lineup would feature Lauri in a straight up SF role, and that's a bad idea - a big part of his success this season has been punishing smaller defenders near the basket. We're already seeing less of that now that Kessler is clogging the paint to an extent, and it would only get more pronounced with Collins (and his defender) hanging near the dunker's spot too. You can talk about Markkanen as a "perimeter big" as much as you want, but the fact is that the only real advantage he has there is shooting over smaller guys. In other words, the same limiting role both Chicago (and to a lesser extent Cleveland) used him in. We don't want that now that we've seen what he can do when he roams around. As a pure SF, playing with two other bigs, he wouldn't be able to drive past many of his defenders and there wouldn't be space for that either as long as Kessler remains a non-shooter who can't draw his defender away from the hoop.

By necessity, Lauri would become even more of an opportunistic scorer than he is now, surviving on other peoples' scraps.

I'm not saying no to a three big lineup as a basic idea (the current iteration is not the real thing, as Olynyk plays much smaller than he is), but the guy we need to complement Lauri and Kessler in that scenario needs to be a better outside shooter than Collins and someone who doesn't need the ball but is comfortable spacing the floor in the corner. Collins is a square peg in a round hole. Lauri has a natural tendency to start floating on the weak side and disappearing if he senses the court is badly spaced, and at this point, we want to avoid a situation like that at all costs because it would be a gigantic waste. He should never again be used in such a narrow way.

So, to sum up... would we be comfortable benching Kessler in favor of Collins? Will Kessler develop a jump shot? Is it even essential for this team that Lauri remains a 20+ point scorer? These are some of the questions that need to be answered. Just trading for Collins (and his stupid contract) and hoping for the best doesn't make sense.
I'm not gonna go too deep into dissecting this... but your view of "Collins throwing a tantrum" is far off the Hawks fan and public media perspective of the guy. If John Collins is the diva who wants to have a huge role... why isnt he forcing his way out or even giving quotes about wanting out?

The storyline of him criticizing the team offense was bloated because it was essentially directed towards Trae Young, their emerging superstar. I dont have access to the Atheltics original article, but BR summarized it like this:
According to Chris Kirschner and Sam Amick of The Athletic, the meeting took place one day after the Hawks blew 15-point leads and lost back-to-back games to the Cleveland Cavaliers in New York Knicks. During the meeting, Collins reportedly said the Hawks "need to get into offensive sets more quickly and to limit all those early shot-clock attempts that leave his teammates on the outside looking in."

Collins also reportedly said he wanted to be involved in an offense with more ball movement and flow than the one that Young currently dominates.
So they blow 2 leads of 15+ with Trae chucking and missing 3s early clock.. and have a film session... Please tell me:
1) How is that toxic? (giving your opion on a video session in a constructive manner)
2) Was he wrong?

Also need I remind you, that they reached ECF in the same year that incident took place and went on a huge run in the spring starting very shortly after that meeting.
 

What is the point for the jazz? We get rid of two young guys with potential and pick up 2 young guys with potential.
Do we think the two we pick up have more upside or something?
Jazz seem to have good chemistry right now and are playing well. If we arent getting any picks then we better belive we are getting decent sized upgrades.


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No thanks. He already turned down a 4/$115 mil extension from Toronto which just seems like crazy money. If Ainge were to pursue anyone on the Raps I'd prefer it be Anunoby who is 6'-7" and has another year left on his contract. He would cost a few picks from their warchest.

FVV, OG, Trent Jr, and Clarkson all represented by Klutch Sports and will all get huge contracts.
Klutch is famously the only agency who tries to get their clients paid the highest amount of money.

/Sarcasm
 
The Clarkson/Klutch connection makes me lean towards trading him before the deadline if there’s not an extension worked out and signed. I love JC, but it’s super risky to sign him long therm to big money.
I'm sorry, but the anti-Klutch **** is so stupid and is very questionable. Clarkson signed an amazing deal to stay with Utah while being with Klutch. Sexton signed a deal with Utah while being with Klutch. An agency's job is to do what their client wants and get them the most money possible. Can we stop demonizing the only black owned sports agency?
 
I'm sorry, but the anti-Klutch **** is so stupid and is very questionable. Clarkson signed an amazing deal to stay with Utah while being with Klutch. Sexton signed a deal with Utah while being with Klutch. An agency's job is to do what their client wants and get them the most money possible. Can we stop demonizing the only black owned sports agency?
Also, if JC wants to stay and tells that to Klutch, they sign him to the best deal Jazz will offer just like any other agency. Its not like they walk over their clients wishes.
 
What is the point for the jazz? We get rid of two young guys with potential and pick up 2 young guys with potential.
Do we think the two we pick up have more upside or something?
Jazz seem to have good chemistry right now and are playing well. If we arent getting any picks then we better belive we are getting decent sized upgrades.


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Hart is your 3 and D wing. He’s been better in other stints… maybe our system helps him and us unlock the best versions of each other… Toppin is the flier on a guy in a potential Lauri situation. Maybe he’s just meh… but he’s been behind Randle and under Thibs thumb… he’s one of the top 10 or so guys I’d like to see what happens if they were in a different situation.
 
We have the second most Klutch players in the league behind the Lakers. Seems like we are just as likely to get a Klutch player as anyone else. Probably more likely since we’ve worked with them multiple times on large deals already.
 
I really doubt it, but if any it would've been Herb Jones. He's just got one year left on his rookie deal, so that's another player they'll need to pay shortly. They'll probably sign EJ Liddell on a cheap next season (2-way now, out with ACL), and they might waive Garret Temple, but they look at luxury tax going forward.
I do to… and actually the scenario where we get him might be if NO sends him out as part of an OG deal. Say Toronto prefers a pick instead of another iffy shooting wing. So it’s like Graham, a Lakers pick, and a pick we provide to Toronto… Herb to Utah… OG to NOP.

Mike, JC, Herb, Lauri, Kessler… IDK sounds promising. Pray Herb shoots it alright.
 
I'm sorry, but the anti-Klutch **** is so stupid and is very questionable. Clarkson signed an amazing deal to stay with Utah while being with Klutch. Sexton signed a deal with Utah while being with Klutch. An agency's job is to do what their client wants and get them the most money possible. Can we stop demonizing the only black owned sports agency?
I certainly didn’t mean it like that. I think that they’re going to do a damn good job for their client and I’d rather not overpay to keep him through his 30’s. Klutch is a great agency for their clients, and it benefits the NBA (and NFL and MLB and MLS and NHL) to have an organization like that out there advising professional athletes.

I will always have concerns about clients getting steered towards the Lakers/LeBron because of his personal connections, but I don’t think Klutch as an agency is less likely to deal with Utah. I simply have reservations about seeing JC hit the open market and possibly leave for nothing.
 
Hart is your 3 and D wing. He’s been better in other stints… maybe our system helps him and us unlock the best versions of each other… Toppin is the flier on a guy in a potential Lauri situation. Maybe he’s just meh… but he’s been behind Randle and under Thibs thumb… he’s one of the top 10 or so guys I’d like to see what happens if they were in a different situation.
So we just would think that they have more upside/potential than vando and malik then it sounds like.
 
I certainly didn’t mean it like that. I think that they’re going to do a damn good job for their client and I’d rather not overpay to keep him through his 30’s. Klutch is a great agency for their clients, and it benefits the NBA (and NFL and MLB and MLS and NHL) to have an organization like that out there advising professional athletes.

I will always have concerns about clients getting steered towards the Lakers/LeBron because of his personal connections, but I don’t think Klutch as an agency is less likely to deal with Utah. I simply have reservations about seeing JC hit the open market and possibly leave for nothing.
I promise you players are steering themselves towards LA as it has been that way forever
 
So we just would think that they have more upside/potential than vando and malik then it sounds like.
And just different player types… we have a few guard scorers and Hart is more defense passing oriented. It’s partly a balance thing.
 
Its not really up to our control... but I could see the OG to NO trade developing. Having OG and Trey Murphy flank Zion and BI is about as ideal as it gets. If they got OG it would be hard to get Herb on the court anyway. I can see Toronto potentially wanting to keep Herb in that deal but also finally realizing having big wings with no shooting isn't it. They may prefer a draft pick. So we step in...

The deal


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I prefer getting Herb anyway tbh. OG is the better player for sure. Herb has two cheap years and then is restricted FA... so you essentially have team control for 6 years. He's also a great fit from a personality standpoint. Super low maintenance and very serious. Not one to want to spend time in big cities... I think he'd fit personality wise and I think we might be able to grow his game. The shooting will always be the struggle.

I just think a defensive base of Herb, Lauri, Kessler is like top 5 defense type **** (as long as you don't get like Trae Young at the 1).
 
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