2011 NBA Free Agent List
- Thread starter Beantown
- Start date
George is from my school, he is a great defender but i think he is nothing like Hayward. He can be a guy like bruce bowen, a complementary piece, but hayward is much better, an all around player. If they think of george like we do for hayward, they r just having delusions
Gyp Rosetti
Banned
Good post. And I agree with Jefferson's offensive game. It's almost unmatched at the 4 in this league. But again, he needs too show me much more. For a guy with that much size and length and promise (look at past rebounding numbers), I need to see a difference this year. If he comes in a little trimmer and lighter, yet stronger and in noticeably better shape, I'll be stoked. That could or at least should mean only great things for him.
My goals for him this year are 19.0+ ppg on 51.2%+, 10.3+ rebounds, 2.1+ assists, and 1.8+ blocks with a free throw percentage somewhere near his career high from last year. Those numbers aren't overwhelming but I expect him to get 3-5 less minutes per game with Favors playing more and Okur coming back. Most importantly to me is his conditioning, offensive efficiency, overall defensive play, passing, and leadership. I'd like to see him make solid improvements in all areas. Not leaps, just solid improvements as he begins to head into what could or should be the peak of his career for the next 3-5 years. If he can do that, I'm sold on him.
billyshelby
Well-Known Member
Pretty much agree with everything you said. Slightly disagree with only two things:
1. I don't want Al coming in lighter. Running the court like a gazelle is never going to be his game. Better conditioned, sure, but that's true of every player. If I'm Al's physical trainer, I'm putting his lower body on a grueling regimen and not letting him lose weight. The absolute key to Al getting the maximum out of his skill is being able to set up low on the block and hold position. Keep the *** fat and turn the legs into tree trunks. I would love to see his efficiency totals when he catches the ball at 8 feet. He's flat out unguardable that close.
2. I don't see Al's minutes being affected by Favors. Millsap's minutes might get affected by Favors, but I doubt that, too. Favors will have his good games where he plays extra time. But he's so raw offensively I'll be surprised if he averages more than 25. But I'm very hopeful Favors will make such strides that he warrants more time. I just think Favors in year 2 is going to mostly be a warrior on the 2nd unit refining his offensive game.
bump
Which free agents do you like? I guess I'm not sold on the Millsap = SF plan, and I'd like Hayward to play more 2 than 3. And I don't want to bring Miles back (sign & trade would be best). I have mixed feelings about AK. So there's a hole at SF which I'd like to fill with a quality FA using the MLE (without knowing the new CBA, it's hard to predict what will be allowed... but there will likely be something like the MLE).
Which free agents do you like? I guess I'm not sold on the Millsap = SF plan, and I'd like Hayward to play more 2 than 3. And I don't want to bring Miles back (sign & trade would be best). I have mixed feelings about AK. So there's a hole at SF which I'd like to fill with a quality FA using the MLE (without knowing the new CBA, it's hard to predict what will be allowed... but there will likely be something like the MLE).
Favors Flave
Well-Known Member
Well now the good crop of SG's in this class are out of the question most likely.
-PG position- If we don't re-sign Watson, I like JJ Barea and Mario Chalmers. Not many back up points. No need to get a 3rd string guy b/c we have Burks now who can play the 1.
-SG- I love the SG talent but would only make a play for one if Hayward moves to 3- Marcus Thorton, Nick Young, Arron Afflalo, Jamal Crawford, Jason Richardson and then some bench options like Mike Dunleavy, CDR, Michael Redd, DeShawn Stevenson
-SF- Wilson Chandler, Prince, Grant Hill, Rasual Butler, Shane Battier, Caron Butler, Azubuike. Most of those guys are veterans but would love for Chandler,Prince or Butler to be our starting SF. Maybe a very cheap bench option is Derrick Brown. Tyrone Corbin and the Jazz staff loved him and remember him playing for our summer league team.
-PF- No chance they sign a PF
- C- Would only sign a back up C if they move Big Al or Memo. I would only want a defensive center type though. A lot of defensive C's but most of these guys would want to be starters or would demand way too much $- Chandler, Nene, Gasol, Dalembert, DeAndre Jordan, Przybilla, Ryan Hollins, Alexis Ajinca,Ratliff
I think we should be saving as much cash as possible right now... we're going to have to resign 2 top 5 picks in the next 3 years and 2 other lottery picks. Drafting well doesn't mean jack if we can't afford to keep them.
We're not a playoff team with any combination of those free agents, with the exception of Marc Gasol, but he's going to be a hard get...
We're not a playoff team with any combination of those free agents, with the exception of Marc Gasol, but he's going to be a hard get...
jazzmeister
Member
Yeah, no need to spend money for the sake of spending it. If Earl Watson leaves, then we need a backup point guard. That's an immediate need in my opinion. Other then that I like the youth. It's just going to take playing time and experience. I don't want us singing any players that will hinder the growth and development of the youth/talent we have now.
GVC
Well-Known Member
He averaged only 0.89 points per possession in post ups (this includes points from free throws), which is right around league average in post up situations, and well below league average for overall points per possession. Additionally, since his passes out of the post rarely lead to better shots for his teammates (they all too often require the Jazz to reset the offense with little time left on the shot clock), these post up opportunities are even less effective.
But the myth of Al's magical low post ability will live on indefinitely...
billyshelby
Well-Known Member
Do I need to break out your own statistics and paddle you again? Al put up numbers that were right in line with Gasol, Randolph, and several of the premier 4's. Your silly stat lists guys like Barnagni as an elite post scorer. So if Gasol and Randolph are average post players, then I guess Al is, too.
GVC
Well-Known Member
You never paddled me the first time. Stop living in 1974. If the low post is used effectively to open up the floor for other players, draw fouls, and put pressure on the defense, it's fine. The low post has not been an efficient place to get points absent these considerations in years for all but a handful of players, Jefferson included. Unfortunately, not only has Al never shown an ability to make his teammates better, he's been a perfect example of a player that makes his teammates worse throughout his career. On offense, all he sees is the ball and the basket, on defense all he sees is his man, and he's in no hurry to get up or down the court. All the data points to these statements being true. Very little data supports the converse being true.
If he comes back in piss poor shape again, and sucks through the first half of the season, what then?
GVC
Well-Known Member
and Pau Gasol? Give me a ****ing break. Without even considering his elite team play, the dude averages 1.05 points per possession. Jefferson comes in at 0.99, which represents a pretty damn significant dropoff (Pau's also superior in postups).
And my point isn't that he's terrible, it's that he's not nearly as good as many seem to think he is. He's far from elite at anything. He's not good enough to build a team around, and if Favors and Kanter develop, he's probably the fourth best big man on the Jazz roster, while getting paid at least twice as much as the three better than him.
And my point isn't that he's terrible, it's that he's not nearly as good as many seem to think he is. He's far from elite at anything. He's not good enough to build a team around, and if Favors and Kanter develop, he's probably the fourth best big man on the Jazz roster, while getting paid at least twice as much as the three better than him.
billyshelby
Well-Known Member
GVC
Well-Known Member
Cue the "you can ignore 7 years of evidence in favor of a good two month stretch" and "I watched him more than you, therefore I'm right and you're wrong" ********.
Have you ever considered, even for a second, that his inefficient, poor team play his first seven seasons, rather than his good stretch the last couple months of last season, represent what Big Al is as a player, and not the other way around?
Again, what if he comes back next season in poor shape and plays like he has for the majority of his career? Are you going to wait 5 years for him to develop as you have for CJ?
Big Al, if we're being honest about his contributions, is the odd man out right now. I hope he comes back better than ever (but, unlike you and many others, I hope the same for Millsap), but I'm not holding my breath.
billyshelby
Well-Known Member
billyshelby
Well-Known Member
In 07/08, Al averaged 21 and 11 with a 22.8 PER playing all 82 games.
In 08/09, Al was averaging 23 and 11 with a 23.1 PER in the 50 games before he got hurt.
But I guess that "stretch" of 132 games doesn't count. Let me guess: The TWolves lost which means he was hurting the team with his performance.
GVC
Well-Known Member
That was in postup situations only, I think. My above post is for all possessions. Regardless, the two are on completely different levels as players. Pau is head and shoulders above Jefferson as an NBA player. The comparison is stupid.
GVC
Well-Known Member
PER says very little about team and transition play (and rewards volume), and thus oversells Jefferson's contributions. Since he's roughly average scoring the basketball, what else does he bring to the table to help his team and teammates win basketball games?