2020 Presidential election

[idestroyedthetoilet]

Yes I probably got mad at this BS because you morons just cry contrarian anytime I disagree with you.

Now your drunk *** supports Mike Bloomberg over Bernie despite Bernie being the popular choice. Kind of like you're the contrarian....

Get on board or not. Bernie 2020 ya bish

The most bizarre thing about you Bernie socialists is how firmly you believe he will change your life like he's Ed McMahon. Instead of trying to better yourself you hope Bernie will do it for you?

Here's the simple perspective about Bernie's property confiscation tax of 1% per year and redistribution scheme. That amounts to what, $500 per US citizen? Didn't Trump just give you all that much directly into your bi-monthly paycheck with his TCJA? And how awesome is your life now because of that? Thanks Trump [insert frowny face]. Our resident whiner complains that all he sees from it is inflation everywhere. Yet y'all think Bernie's $500 is somehow going to be different and life changing, because he sprinkles faerie dust?

There will always be the griping middle class. Go work hard and do something about it before the Bernie socialists take control, raise all our already extreme taxes, and make it nearly impossible to come up without being born into wealth.

 

[colton]

Straight up: All of this is accurate. The Sanders people tell me I might as well be a Republican. They insist everyone more moderate than Elizabeth Warren is the enemy.

It's not just people like @colton who will be pushed out of the coalition - it's me too. And I'm a lot easier to turn out than Colton.

I just sent this to @The Thriller, but it's probably worth posting here as well.

From https://thebulwark.com/newsletter-issue/the-question-bernie-is-never-asked/

But here is a thing that has literally never happened on a debate stage:

Someone, anyone, saying, “Senator Sanders, you campaigned for the Socialist Workers Party at a time when they were defending the Iranian hostage taking of American citizens. What does that say about your judgment?”

Or: “Senator Sanders, you supported the Nicaraguan revolutionary and dictator Daniel Ortega. You also supported the Cuban revolutionary and dictator Fidel Castro. Both of whom terrorized their people and worked aggressively against American interests. What does that say about your judgment?”

Or: “Senator Sanders, at a time when millions of political prisoners died at the hands of the Gulag Archipelago, you went to Russia for your honeymoon and came home praising the Soviet Union. What does that say about your judgment?”

If you want to argue that the crazy Marxist stuff Bernie believed 30 years ago doesn’t matter today, that’s fine. But he should have to make that argument out loud.

He shouldn’t just get a pass where no one even asks him about it at the same time that he’s casting aspersions on people for once holding views that were comparatively mainstream and even if they were mistaken, were several orders of magnitude less pernicious than the mistaken views Sanders once espoused.

The debate moderators were absolutely derelict in not asking Sanders about this when he brought up Bloomberg’s support of George W. Bush. And the other Democratic candidates were committing political malpractice.

If they lose to this guy, they will have gotten what they deserved.​

 

[Eminence]

Talk about some loaded questions Colton, lol.

I'm not interested in getting into it on a sports forum about Central America/the Middle East and the US's continued bungles there, but from my understanding Bernie visited Russia in the late 80's, several decades after any gulaging was done.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

BS. Socioeconomic mobility has been decreasing in the US since the 70s or 80s. I saw recently (altho I can't right now remember where) that it's lower in the US than in the UK - a nation with actual nobility.

If you want to educate yourself, hell, the Wikipedia article is a good place to start. And you read the links and citations and get yourself a decent understanding. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socioeconomic_mobility_in_the_United_States

Good luck convincing the many., many people I know who have succeeded at moving up in socio-economic class that it can't be done. At the extreme end I know several people who grew up with nothing who now have hundreds of millions. One thing that none of them are likely to spend their energy studying are articles like the one you cite suggesting that what they are doing cannot be done. Instead these people are far more likely to study articles and books that teach them how to become successful, or even apprenticing with other successful people.

And for every article you can find suggesting that upward mobility is supposedly not possible, I can find one that proves that it is.

https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/real-1-percent

 

[The Thriller]

Talk about some loaded questions Colton, lol.

I'm not interested in getting into it on a sports forum about Central America/the Middle East and the US's continued bungles there, but from my understanding Bernie visited Russia in the late 80's, several decades after any gulaging was done.

Aside from Gulags, bernie made some appallingly ignorant statements about the USSR’s health care system and Housing. Tom Nichols points them out here:



We can either flesh these out now while there’s still a chance to nominate someone else or wait until Trump’s team does. Again, sanders isn’t electable and will probably take our control of the House with him. Want to give Donald 4 more years and at least 2 more with a unified congress? Want to make Kevin McCarthy or Gym Jordan House speaker?

Nominate sanders.

 

[The Thriller]

If this doesn’t remind you of Trump then I got nothing for you. We’re playing with fire here

 

[Eminence]

Aside from Gulags, bernie made some appallingly ignorant statements about the USSR’s health care system and Housing. Tom Nichols points them out here:



We can either flesh these out now while there’s still a chance to nominate someone else or wait until Trump’s team does. Again, sanders isn’t electable and will probably take our control of the House with him. Want to give Donald 4 more years and at least 2 more with a unified congress? Want to make Kevin McCarthy or Gym Jordan House speaker?

Nominate sanders.

So... I'm interested in which actual quotes you think are appallingly ignorant from Sanders here. Quote them directly please. Cause as best I can tell, yes, Nichols' clearly thinks very little of Sanders and his time in the USSR, Sander's statements... Far more nebulous and I'm not seeing anything appalling there.

I'm trying to be fair in listening to you Thriller, but I'll be honest, I'm still a little pissed about your Flint comments the other day.

 

[The Thriller]

So... I'm interested in which actual quotes you think are appallingly ignorant from Sanders here. Quote them directly please. Cause as best I can tell, yes, Nichols' clearly thinks very little of Sanders and his time in the USSR, Sander's statements... Far more nebulous and I'm not seeing anything appalling there.

I'm trying to be fair in listening to you Thriller, but I'll be honest, I'm still a little pissed about your Flint comments the other day.

You could try Googling them. Although, I’m not sure why you’d need to read his actual quote admiring the USSR’s medical system to know how wrong he was. So that’s weird.

What was upsetting about my Flint comments?

 

[Zombie]

Although, I’m not sure why you’d need to read his actual quote admiring the USSR’s medical system to know how wrong he was.

This is almost beyond parody.

 

[Eminence]

If this doesn’t remind you of Trump then I got nothing for you. We’re playing with fire here

I don't like that he answered that way, I'm not overly surprised that he did (he and WaPo have been contentious for awhile). There was no need for him to bring the journalists into it, he should've dropped a simple 'I don't know'. I liked his answer to the 1st part of the question well enough.

And I guess that's where I'm struggling to see the similarity, I and many Bernie supporters are comfortable disagreeing with him.

For the other post:

You're the one trying to show me all these appalling comments, in my rough searches I've never found anything more incriminating than what was in that opinion piece. Which was... not incriminating. I can find an opinion piece to say nearly anything I want, so yeah, I like to hear the actual quotes and the context they're delivered in, sue me I guess.

For Flint, I felt you showed an extreme callousness, a win at all costs attitude that I'm not interested in, and of course, like all of the deepest cuts, reminded me of a ****** childhood. People have been left behind enough by all parts of the US political system. Your vote doesn't matter, so we don't need to communicate with you - isn't a position I ever want to hear.

 

[The Thriller]

I don't like that he answered that way, I'm not overly surprised that he did (he and WaPo have been contentious for awhile). There was no need for him to bring the journalists into it, he should've dropped a simple 'I don't know'. I liked his answer to the 1st part of the question well enough.

And I guess that's where I'm struggling to see the similarity, I and many Bernie supporters are comfortable disagreeing with him.

For the other post:

You're the one trying to show me all these appalling comments, in my rough searches I've never found anything more incriminating than what was in that opinion piece. Which was... not incriminating. I can find an opinion piece to say nearly anything I want, so yeah, I like to hear the actual quotes and the context they're delivered in, sue me I guess.

For Flint, I felt you showed an extreme callousness, a win at all costs attitude that I'm not interested in, and of course, like all of the deepest cuts, reminded me of a ****** childhood. People have been left behind enough by all parts of the US political system. Your vote doesn't matter, so we don't need to communicate with you - isn't a position I ever want to hear.

good grief. Gearing your campaign towards winning an area that already votes blue while neglecting purple and light red areas is why we lost the House in 2010 and lost the presidential election in 2016. We won the midterms by expanding the map.

We won’t win in 2020 if we cannot win over moderates and conservatives.

 

[Zombie]

good grief. Gearing your campaign towards winning an area that already votes blue while neglecting purple and light red areas is why we lost the House in 2010 and lost the presidential election in 2016. We won the midterms by expanding the map.

We won’t win in 2020 if we cannot win over moderates and conservatives.

Good grief. Can you just think for one second in terms of fighting for a cause you believe in and not one that is only designed to cater to conservatives so you can win an election?

You sound like a campaign strategist on a cable news show, and no, that's not a compliment.

 

[Zombie]

The funny thing about Sanders' comments about the USSR is that his visit came during the period where that country was in the middle of attempted reforms toward openness and potentially a democratic society. Within that context it makes sense why Sanders would claim he was surprised by such things. Of course things didn't quite turn out that way in the long run, but at the time there was reason for optimism as the USSR and US relations were on a path toward normalization.

FWIW that visit took place the same year Ronald Reagan said he didn't view the USSR as the Evil Empire anymore, and that that was a "different time, a different era."

Just a couple things to think about when trying to get your red scare on.

 

[Zombie]

Good luck convincing the many., many people I know who have succeeded at moving up in socio-economic class that it can't be done. At the extreme end I know several people who grew up with nothing who now have hundreds of millions. One thing that none of them are likely to spend their energy studying are articles like the one you cite suggesting that what they are doing cannot be done. Instead these people are far more likely to study articles and books that teach them how to become successful, or even apprenticing with other successful people.

And for every article you can find suggesting that upward mobility is supposedly not possible, I can find one that proves that it is.

https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/real-1-percent

Go ahead and point out where Gandalf said it was impossible.

 

[Zombie]

The most bizarre thing about you Bernie socialists is how firmly you believe he will change your life like he's Ed McMahon. Instead of trying to better yourself you hope Bernie will do it for you?

Here's the simple perspective about Bernie's property confiscation tax of 1% per year and redistribution scheme. That amounts to what, $500 per US citizen? Didn't Trump just give you all that much directly into your bi-monthly paycheck with his TCJA? And how awesome is your life now because of that? Thanks Trump [insert frowny face]. Our resident whiner complains that all he sees from it is inflation everywhere. Yet y'all think Bernie's $500 is somehow going to be different and life changing, because he sprinkles faerie dust?

There will always be the griping middle class. Go work hard and do something about it before the Bernie socialists take control, raise all our already extreme taxes, and make it nearly impossible to come up without being born into wealth.

Bernie's tax/M4A plan would save me a couple thousand a year and I'd actually go see a doctor for health issues I've ignored in the past because I still had a three thousand deductible to meet. I'd also feel secure in going back to school or taking a risk in new employment opportunities without having to worry about losing the health care I have.

So yeah, obviously Bernie isn't going to be able to do this on his own, but if this movement he is leading succeeds my life will indeed change.

 

[Eminence]

good grief. Gearing your campaign towards winning an area that already votes blue while neglecting purple and light red areas is why we lost the House in 2010 and lost the presidential election in 2016. We won the midterms by expanding the map.

We won’t win in 2020 if we cannot win over moderates and conservatives.

Nobody said anything about gearing a campaign towards anything. You don't stop communicating with people because you've 'won them over'. It's why nobody votes where I grew up, they already know how the results will go. Only focusing on winning an election over the issues is turning whole swathes of the population off of participating in the political process at all.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

Ah, there it is. I knew Bernie's popularity must have been because of Russia...

 

[gandalfe]

Good luck convincing the many., many people I know who have succeeded at moving up in socio-economic class that it can't be done. At the extreme end I know several people who grew up with nothing who now have hundreds of millions. One thing that none of them are likely to spend their energy studying are articles like the one you cite suggesting that what they are doing cannot be done. Instead these people are far more likely to study articles and books that teach them how to become successful, or even apprenticing with other successful people.

And for every article you can find suggesting that upward mobility is supposedly not possible, I can find one that proves that it is.

https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/real-1-percent

The Cato Institute is really not a reputable source. And, as was mentioned, I never said it was impossible. The statistically few cases where it happens are held out as shining beacons to convince us all that it's our fault that we're not rich. You know, like you're doing.

 

[idestroyedthetoilet]

Bernie's tax/M4A plan would save me a couple thousand a year and I'd actually go see a doctor for health issues I've ignored in the past because I still had a three thousand deductible to meet. I'd also feel secure in going back to school or taking a risk in new employment opportunities without having to worry about losing the health care I have.

So yeah, obviously Bernie isn't going to be able to do this on his own, but if this movement he is leading succeeds my life will indeed change.

That's a good reason to be for it, IMO.

 

[Zombie]

That's a good reason to be for it, IMO.

What I described is the same experience as nearly every Bernie supporter I've encountered fwiw.