At what point is it time to get concerned about Hayward?

[Game6Conley]

Also, I nearly guarantee Hayward has at least a 20 point game vs. teh Blazers.

Home game and the Blazers aren't very good defensively. Hayward is going to take a **** on Aminu (coincidentally one of the players PGAB was unmistakably correct about). Jazz will get out on the break more behind the energy of the crowd and Hayward will get some early buckets and more whistles than he has been getting on the road.

You seem like the type of person who's into supermarket check-out line tabloids.. I fixed your post. I was on this forum blowing the whistle about Aminu looking for aMINUMUM deal at 23 years old, at that time they were saying nobody really wanted him..... do you think Trevor Bookers next deal is going to look like Aminu's?? they paid booker almost 5x as much... Aminu played WAAAAAAY over his pay grade for NO and Dallas(was only making about 1 mil per..).. Now he's a starting SF in the league, with a 4 year 30 mil contract, and he just turned 25..

Plus he's a super high character player, I said back then he'd never complain about minutes at-all he's not like that, he's just a pro. thru and thru, he's no bust either as many have previously espoused.



Yall ****ers told me in those threads he couldnt shoot(from three and from the FT line)... dude's 5/10 from 3 so far and 10/11 from the FT line

 

[Game6Conley]

If you think we're bad head on over to the Clutchfans. They are calling him "James Frauden" after 3 games...

I always recommend going to Clutchfans anyways. Its like an anti-depressant. You will feel better about yourself,
and your fan base after.

Harden was out partying til the wee hours on Halloween.. If those rockets fans are aware of that, they should be kinda pissed.

 

[fishonjazz]

To rely fully on team basketball in the playoffs is a foolhardy idea

The spurs say hello.

But actually, I agree with you. We need an actually true super star, alpha, go to guy on offense.
Until we get that guy I think we will just have good regular seasons and make the playoffs and maybe some conference finals, but never win it all

 

[Game6Conley]

Wtf are you talking about? Hayward never played in a playoff series against Cleveland or LeBron. Yes, George, sure. You need to clarify this post. In any case, you can't compare early Hayward with current Hayward. He has improved tremendously since then.

.. Whats there to clarify ?? I'm surprised by these type of responses, are the Jazz an expansion team or something? It seems like y'all are downplaying the importance of the playoffs in this thread..(could that be results based?!?) --- I'm shocked at how wide-spread it is.

Y'all really need me to spoon feed you this simple logic, which I understood before turning 10... So be it

Paul George, in the biggest games in his career demonstrated beyond a shadow of a doubt, that he can put a team on his back, and pushed the Heat to a game 7.. Hayward has nothing like that on his resume. He hasn't yet figured out how to win in the playoffs, or even shoot a decent %, he's just a good regular season player til proven otherwise... He's never demonstrated that type of poise, mettle or leadership in those extreme circumstances, In the one chance he had, to prove himself vs tested playoff competition(The Spurs) he couldn't have performed worse, he was totally stifled by the situation, while George rose to the occasion many times over in that run which solidified his status as effective "First option offense".

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

You seem like the type of person who's into supermarket check-out line tabloids.. I fixed your post. I was on this forum blowing the whistle about Aminu looking for aMINUMUM deal at 23 years old, at that time they were saying nobody really wanted him..... do you think Trevor Bookers next deal is going to look like Aminu's?? they paid booker almost 5x as much... Aminu played WAAAAAAY over his pay grade for NO and Dallas(was only making about 1 mil per..).. Now he's a starting SF in the league, with a 4 year 30 mil contract, and he just turned 25..

Plus he's a super high character player, I said back then he'd never complain about minutes at-all he's not like that, he's just a pro. thru and thru, he's no bust either as many have previously espoused.



Yall ****ers told me in those threads he couldnt shoot(from three and from the FT line)... dude's 5/10 from 3 so far and 10/11 from the FT line

Remember when you said you quit the forum if Bryce got cut and Neto made the team?

Also incredible sample size on Aminu's numbers.
Sent from my LG-E970 using Tapatalk

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

You seem like the type of person who's into supermarket check-out line tabloids.. I fixed your post. I was on this forum blowing the whistle about Aminu looking for aMINUMUM deal at 23 years old, at that time they were saying nobody really wanted him..... do you think Trevor Bookers next deal is going to look like Aminu's?? they paid booker almost 5x as much... Aminu played WAAAAAAY over his pay grade for NO and Dallas(was only making about 1 mil per..).. Now he's a starting SF in the league, with a 4 year 30 mil contract, and he just turned 25..

Plus he's a super high character player, I said back then he'd never complain about minutes at-all he's not like that, he's just a pro. thru and thru, he's no bust either as many have previously espoused.



Yall ****ers told me in those threads he couldnt shoot(from three and from the FT line)... dude's 5/10 from 3 so far and 10/11 from the FT line

Harden was out partying til the wee hours on Halloween.. If those rockets fans are aware of that, they should be kinda pissed.

Seems like you are the one that reads the tabloids.

 

[Game6Conley]

The spurs say hello.

But actually, I agree with you. We need an actually true super star, alpha, go to guy on offense.
Until we get that guy I think we will just have good regular seasons and make the playoffs and maybe some conference finals, but never win it all

Tim Duncan has always been a legit 1st offensive option for them though, since Day 1 - They won 36 more games than the previous season when he was a rookie..

I'd argue TD was such an effective 1st option offense - they got away with phasing him out some to play 'team ball', they still had that threat of a 1st option offense out there.. Which is kinda my point, If Hayward could be that guy --- Great, I'm all for it..

(That's not where were at right now.. Hayward will not get a better matchup all season to take advantage of than what he faced the other night in Philly, Nor only was Covington out, JaKarr Sampson picked up 3 fouls early..)

There's a few hangups with that whole 'phased out 1st option, but still a threat' concept though, as it applies to Hayward ... ..

For starters, Tim Duncan has never been on a losing team, so he's never needed to prove himself like Hay, because it was always obvious he was having a serious effect on the wins/losses.. Duncan also scored more PPG as a rookie than Hayward has in his best season..

Another thing that goes unsaid is the competition's way better now, It's truly going to take something special to win the Chip.. The Warriors would run many past champions right off the court.

 

[Getting Traded]

PG, I'm a little confused by your post on Hayward. Are you criticizing him?

So far as my take on him:

The only place I see a problem is with his shooting -- he is too inconsistent. He can do everything else, and do it well -- distribute, play defense, rebound, get to the hole and absorb contact, lead the team. What more do you want him to do -- for me, just start making a better percentage of his shots from the outside, and being more consistent at the foul line.

 

[Stoked]

@silesian

If you fail to see the connection - I'll break it down for you:

Who cares about middle of the pack offensive efficiency?? I certainly don't. That seems like a 'regular season stat' thru and thru.. Unless your on the extreme ends of the spectrum, It doesn't mean **** once you hit the playoffs, certainly not vs a team like the Warriors..


E.G. The Jazz had the 9th best offensive efficiency in the league in 2011-2012, then proceeded to score under 90 ppg in a 4 game sweep to the Spurs.. Haywards fingerprints were all over that too.. (Favors showed up to play that series though)..


Y'all seem to avoid talking about the playoffs and playoff scenarios quite a bit(yet I see constant hyper-critical complaints about the rookies).. As A Yankees fan, I think its hysterical.

I've learned its prudent not to just pay attention to your team, but the field -- and the Warriors are a pristine example, because you could argue they were the standard of excellence in the league wire-to-wire last season... Plus The Warriors team dynamic, is built to break the Jazz team dynamic, no?? quite easily IMO - Their an awful matchup for Utah in a 7 game series, even if they make a few upgrades...

Because you have to walk before you can run. The difference between the Yankees and the Jazz is the Yankess are perennial playoff contenders and have won numerous championships. Jazz are working toward just making the playoffs this season.

We all want to win the championship but we are being realistic. This year the goal is to make the playoffs and learn some hard lessons and steal a couple games if they can. Jazz won't beat the Warriors and Thunder in a series. Baby steps.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Because you have to walk before you can run. The difference between the Yankees and the Jazz is the Yankess are perennial playoff contenders and have won numerous championships. Jazz are working toward just making the playoffs this season.

We all want to win the championship but we are being realistic. This year the goal is to make the playoffs and learn some hard lessons and steal a couple games if they can. Jazz won't beat the Warriors and Thunder in a series. Baby steps.

Difference between Jazz and Yankees is the Yankees usually have more than double the median payroll of their league.

 

[Lost_Jazz_Fan]

Definitely one of the best posts in this thread. Pretty much why I made it, I chose to word it a bit differently though..

I certainly would be SHOCKED if Haywards play fell off markedly... I'm thinking his stats kinda 'come back to earth' though, someone else noted his usage rate is down.. Alec's back, Hood will get more minutes. I don't see how he's gonna score 20ppg, unless there's injuries..

I've noted already in this thread - a steady progression of stats like Favors and Hayward have been doing the past few years, is more of an indicator for the Big, than the wing. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.





let me ask you though, honestly --- Hows that worked for them over the years?!????? Is that what you'd classify as 'championship winning basketball'??

This is a proven recipe for disaster in the playoffs ..Its a fallacy anyways, If the Jazz had Kevin Durant they'd feed him all the shots he wanted.. obviously..

Jazz gonna show up to a sword fight with the plan to inflict 100 paper cuts??

If what you've surmised is true - I say the proper course of action is to find a possible 1st option offense to rely on. To rely fully on team basketball in the playoffs is a foolhardy idea, there's too many moving parts involved, too much room for error -- A chain is only as strong as its weakest link...

The Spurs have exemplified this model and won quite a few championships. As a matter of fact, Poppovich admitted to stealing the model the Spurs play with from the Jazz and Jerry Sloan. So to answer your question, yes I think it is championship basketball if utilized correctly. I think we've seen early on that the Jazz are starting to do that, inside out, team basketball.

 

[Getting Traded]

.. Whats there to clarify ?? I'm surprised by these type of responses, are the Jazz an expansion team or something? It seems like y'all are downplaying the importance of the playoffs in this thread..(could that be results based?!?) --- I'm shocked at how wide-spread it is.

You wrote:

Not in the Conference finals vs Lebron though... Do I need to post Haywards playoff stats from that series?? He shot like 15 % right?? I'm not even gonna do it.

Haywards playoff stats from THAT series? That's what you need to clarify. He never played in a playoff series against Cleveland. I think you were referring to Paul George, correct, not Hayward?

 

[MT Steve]

Who cares about middle of the pack offensive efficiency?? I certainly don't. That seems like a 'regular season stat' thru and thru.. Unless your on the extreme ends of the spectrum, It doesn't mean **** once you hit the playoffs, certainly not vs a team like the Warriors..

Four years ago, the Warriors had a middle of the pack offensive efficiency, with a very young talented core, a couple of fringe all-stars and a strong defensive foundation.

A middle of the pack offensive efficiency and a top defense for the 4th youngest team in the NBA is a great thing.

 

[Mission Accomplished]

Four years ago, the Warriors had a middle of the pack offensive efficiency, with a very young talented core, a couple of fringe all-stars and a strong defensive foundation.

A middle of the pack offensive efficiency and a top defense for the 4th youngest team in the NBA is a great thing.

Warriors only won the title because Lebron was without Love, and Irving. We have Gobert...Hayward is overrated lets use him to get us a potentially great player.

 

[MT Steve]

Hayward is a badass.

 

[ShortShorts]

Hayward's performance is what has me excited. The guy worked is tail feathers off this off-season, I think he'll be at least as good as last year, maybe even a little more efficient because the surrounding players are going to be an improvement taking a little pressure off him. When his game slants back to the mean and we still have a top notch D, we'll only be that much better. I just hope he kicks his standard early season slump quicker this year because we have a beast of a November ahead.

 

[str8line]

Warriors only won the title because Lebron was without Love, and Irving. We have Gobert...Hayward is overrated lets use him to get us a potentially great player.

Trade a great player for a potentially great player? You are nuts. Hayward does so much on the court it's ridiculous. His shot will start falling and he will lead the Jazz to the second round of the playoffs this year.

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

Hayward is so overrated. I would rather have Hood and Burks in the lineup any day of the week. He lost the Detroit game with his poor free-throw shooting. I'm still waiting on him to do anything that blows my mind. He is a white CJ Miles. Heck CJ has turned out to be a better player then Hayward is too this point of his career.

But, let the love feast of Hayward continue....

U are forcing your troll-ness that could explain your serious slump.

@silesian

If you fail to see the connection - I'll break it down for you:

Who cares about middle of the pack offensive efficiency?? I certainly don't. That seems like a 'regular season stat' thru and thru.. Unless your on the extreme ends of the spectrum, It doesn't mean **** once you hit the playoffs, certainly not vs a team like the Warriors..


E.G. The Jazz had the 9th best offensive efficiency in the league in 2011-2012, then proceeded to score under 90 ppg in a 4 game sweep to the Spurs.. Haywards fingerprints were all over that too.. (Favors showed up to play that series though)..


Y'all seem to avoid talking about the playoffs and playoff scenarios quite a bit(yet I see constant hyper-critical complaints about the rookies).. As A Yankees fan, I think its hysterical.

I've learned its prudent not to just pay attention to your team, but the field -- and the Warriors are a pristine example, because you could argue they were the standard of excellence in the league wire-to-wire last season... Plus The Warriors team dynamic, is built to break the Jazz team dynamic, no?? quite easily IMO - Their an awful matchup for Utah in a 7 game series, even if they make a few upgrades...

.. Whats there to clarify ?? I'm surprised by these type of responses, are the Jazz an expansion team or something? It seems like y'all are downplaying the importance of the playoffs in this thread..(could that be results based?!?) --- I'm shocked at how wide-spread it is.

Y'all really need me to spoon feed you this simple logic, which I understood before turning 10... So be it

Paul George, in the biggest games in his career demonstrated beyond a shadow of a doubt, that he can put a team on his back, and pushed the Heat to a game 7.. Hayward has nothing like that on his resume. He hasn't yet figured out how to win in the playoffs, or even shoot a decent %, he's just a good regular season player til proven otherwise... He's never demonstrated that type of poise, mettle or leadership in those extreme circumstances, In the one chance he had, to prove himself vs tested playoff competition(The Spurs) he couldn't have performed worse, he was totally stifled by the situation, while George rose to the occasion many times over in that run which solidified his status as effective "First option offense".

AB. Your missing the big picture. And only looking at the small picture. None of us expects the Jazz to make much noise in the playoffs assuming we make we even make it. Also the whole Playoff Hayward to the playoff PG comparison is extremely weak.

First, u can't compare future 2016 Hayward to 2012 Hayward. Second all players develop at their own pace. Just because it takes Hayward longer doesn't mean much. Plus PG played on better team.

Personally, I think by the time Utah is a contender Hayward won't even be the main focus in 3 years and the team will be much improved.

AB, u must look at the big picture. Big picture looks ever so bright. Don't discount the fact that we have other players rising up and I expect Hayward will be our jack of all trades player on this team while handing the #1 option on offense responsibility to others.

Stop just looking at this year alone.

Hayward is a badass.

Pretty much this

 

[Stoked]

lol at all the Hayward hate.

I'd say ya'll will see but you already do and just don't want to admit it.

Narratives and all that...

 

[Jamezz]

Hayward's performance is what has me excited. The guy worked is tail feathers off this off-season, I think he'll be at least as good as last year, maybe even a little more efficient because the surrounding players are going to be an improvement taking a little pressure off him. When his game slants back to the mean and we still have a top notch D, we'll only be that much better. I just hope he kicks his standard early season slump quicker this year because we have a beast of a November ahead.

I hope it starts showing soon enough. I like that he's worked hard this off season but it's now when it matters. Many players work their butts off during the off season and they end up warming the bench, it's the 'it' factor what we're talking about, that thing that all superstars have on a fairly consistent basis.

No hate.