BOGIE

[KqWIN]

I'd almost like to see Bogie sit for 5-10 games to see how things look with a mix of Oni, Ersan, Niang picking up those minutes. Just want to see if we miss him a lot or a little.

I think it also isn't just him... I think DM's defensive commitment swings fairly wildly... I think its a combo of JC/DM/Bojan that leaves us a little short.

All the title contenders have some short comings so it might be okay to be flawed. We just don't have Lebron, KD, Kawhi that are able to go to a higher gear to cover up our issues.

We don't have a player who can get to the level of LeBron, KD, and Kawhi...but we definitely have areas where this team can elevate. As great as movie narratives are, it's still a team basketball game. The best player doesn't win, the best team does.

The Jazz are still sitting pretty with a historically good net rating and the best record. This is with Mitchell playing like *** this year, you could argue that this is his worst season as a pro. He has so much room to level up on both ends. We've also played Bogey big minutes all year, and it's rare for a team this good to have a guy this bad be one of the minutes leaders. I think moving on from Bogey could really help this team in a lot of ways, but no shot of that happening.

Between those two, I see huge opportunities for improvement. Mitchell can play better on both ends, Bogey can be benched or play better. Rudy playing a lot more minutes in the playoffs will also help out a ton. So even in a rough patch, I'm still fairly optimistic as long as Quin can keep this team's mental straightened out. He did, however, fail miserably at doing so last year and we're seeing a lot of the same things happening again.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

We don't have a player who can get to the level of LeBron, KD, and Kawhi...but we definitely have areas where this team can elevate. As great as movie narratives are, it's still a team basketball game. The best player doesn't win, the best team does.

The Jazz are still sitting pretty with a historically good net rating and the best record. This is with Mitchell playing like *** this year, you could argue that this is his worst season as a pro. He has so much room to level up on both ends. We've also played Bogey big minutes all year, and it's rare for a team this good to have a guy this bad be one of the minutes leaders. I think moving on from Bogey could really help this team in a lot of ways, but no shot of that happening.

Between those two, I see huge opportunities for improvement. Mitchell can play better on both ends, Bogey can be benched or play better. Rudy playing a lot more minutes in the playoffs will also help out a ton. So even in a rough patch, I'm still fairly optimistic as long as Quin can keep this team's mental straightened out. He did, however, fail miserably at doing so last year and we're seeing a lot of the same things happening again.

Its just trending the wrong way for a few weeks on defense... so some worries are valid. We have been really damn good... I just hope some of that is not fools gold.

Struggling now is okay because it will give Quin an opening to make some adjustments and gives DL some urgency to look around a bit.

I don't necessarily agree with the assessment on DM. He has had his struggles but has showed the ability to do things on both sides of the floor that are encouraging. I also worried he could be a high volume guy in an average offense but wasn't sure he could in an elite offense. So he's proved that to me. He has struggled in the clutch... his defense last year was quite a bit worse than this year... I think his effort/focus there needs to be more consistent.

 

[Cptgrnlngs22]

It’s too bad the suns are doing so well. I’d love to trade for Jae. He would be a great guy to come off the bench with favors, Ingles, and clarkson. Still want to see what Ersan can do in the system. If there is a position that needs to be upgraded it would be bogey. Maybe next year cause I doubt they do anything this year. Still holding out that he bounces back.


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[Max Porter]

I'm not worried about Bogey going into the playoffs offensively. He will find his shooting touch again. The issue with him is his defense. We already rely too heavily on Rudy and without a defensive minded 4 we will not get into the finals. We have enough shooting power. We don't absolutely need him. We absolutely need another wing defender. How is it that Rudy had a 24 and 28 game and we lose? That should NEVER happen. The issue is the rest of the team defensively.

Also, it's imperative not to have Donovan and JC in the game at the same time. We are terrible defensively with both of them on the court at the same time which tells me one of them or both of them is not picking it up defensively.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I'm not worried about Bogey going into the playoffs offensively. He will find his shooting touch again. The issue with him is his defense. We already rely too heavily on Rudy and without a defensive minded 4 we will not get into the finals. We have enough shooting power. We don't absolutely need him. We absolutely need another wing defender. How is it that Rudy had a 24 and 28 game and we lose? That should NEVER happen. The issue is the rest of the team defensively.

Also, it's imperative not to have Donovan and JC in the game at the same time. We are terrible defensively with both of them on the court at the same time which tells me one of them or both of them is not picking it up defensively.

How many of those DM JC minutes are with Favs instead of Rudy? Its about 75% with Favs... many of those minutes also include Bogey. I don't think this is a JC and DM don't work together thing... I think it is a JC and DM don't work on defense if Favs is the center.

While DM and JC are the perfect combo on defense for sure... they will need to play some together... unless you cut JC's minutes down to like 14 a game, which is a terrible decision. They will be on the court for 10+ minutes a night

 

[infection]

The biggest problem with Bogie is the easiest one to fix: don’t ever put the ****ing ball on the floor. Ever.

In all my years of watching basketball, I have never seen someone so reliably get stripped on any dribble to the basket. Ever. I can’t think of a single person where it was a guaranteed turnover. We/he keeps doing it, though. Quin has to recognize this. I hope. Not enough to do anything about it.

 

[infection]

OPJ can’t get here soon enough.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

The biggest problem with Bogie is the easiest one to fix: don’t ever put the ****ing ball on the floor. Ever.

In all my years of watching basketball, I have never seen someone so reliably get stripped on any dribble to the basket. Ever. I can’t think of a single person where it was a guaranteed turnover. We/he keeps doing it, though. Quin has to recognize this. I hope. Not enough to do anything about it.

Last year he did some good stuff diving off of screens... this year he has the turnovers... and he is not finishing at the rim either. Its a rough combo.

The biggest issue is the defense and I lump in rebounding with that. The turnovers are maddening too. He's not a great passer so we don't need to sacrifice a few possessions pretending he needs to create with the ball in his hands. When Mike was out it was helpful at times.

He also doesn't have a super quick release. There are times when I feel he should easily get off a shot and he does the pump fake side step.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

OPJ can’t get here soon enough.

I'm also watching Rudy Gay a little... the Spurs tanking down the stretch and going young is not completely out of the question.

 

[prodigy]

Whenever Bojan is trying to finish around the rim against a defender I pray his yelling is enough to persuade the ref to call a foul. He needs to go the joe route and find craftier ways at finishing to make up for his lack of athleticism.

 

[Ron Mexico]

How many of those DM JC minutes are with Favs instead of Rudy? Its about 75% with Favs... many of those minutes also include Bogey. I don't think this is a JC and DM don't work together thing... I think it is a JC and DM don't work on defense if Favs is the center.

While DM and JC are the perfect combo on defense for sure... they will need to play some together... unless you cut JC's minutes down to like 14 a game, which is a terrible decision. They will be on the court for 10+ minutes a night

Gobert, Mitchell, and JC have played together 123 minutes with a negative 2.9 net rating and a 107 defensive rating.
Favors, Mitchell, and JC have played together 356 minutes with a positive 2.2 net rating and a 113 defensive rating.

 

[prodigy]

He's also frustratingly misses a ton of open looks this year. That combined with the other team attacking relentlessly on defense and it's been a big no bueno from me dawg.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Gobert, Mitchell, and JC have played together 123 minutes with a negative 2.9 net rating and a 107 defensive rating.
Favors, Mitchell, and JC have played together 356 minutes with a positive 2.2 net rating and a 113 defensive rating.

Basically it’s a Favs issue. Those two have to play together... when Rudy is out we are basically just trying to out score the other team anyway. We ain’t stopping anybody unless Rudy is in the game.

 

[KqWIN]

There isn't a trade that makes sense, but Aaron Gordon would be the perfect target. Looks like ORL will move him and whoever gets him is getting a steal. It wouldn't surprise me if he becomes an all star away from Orlando.

 

[Ron Mexico]

Basically it’s a Favs issue. Those two have to play together... when Rudy is out we are basically just trying to out score the other team anyway. We ain’t stopping anybody unless Rudy is in the game.

Rudy is an elite defender, we all know that. But both of those lineups are really bad. They dont seem to play well together. But our defense is and always will be with Gobert in. But Favors is still an above average defender, Mitchell and JC are not. Also even with Gobert we arent really stopping anyone when it matters lately and that needs to change. Favors is hardly much of our issue. He fills in as a decent backup center for limited minutes, his effect isnt large either way.

Our team defense is poor besides Gobert and that starts with Mitchell. He needs to play consistent good defense as a leader. JC is also a bad defender, as is Bogie. But they put in more effort than Mitchell. It was better for awhile but dropped back off. I dont really think Royce is better than average defender but he puts a ton of effort in and plays decent team defense. Ingles is above average defender because he plays smart and has decent length but he obviously lacks some tools to be good. Favors is a good defender and has been his whole career but he isnt Gobert level defender, he needs effort around him.

I think we need more Oni and we need every player to start playing defense again, at least putting good effort in. We cant just funnel to our Center and hope for the best. Not even Gobert can clean up that mess.

Oni is in our best defensive lineups. He has mostly played with Gobert putting up a 88 defensive rating. His minutes with Favors are limited so it might be an anomaly but they are putting up 69 defensive rating. I think Favors needs some defense with him on the court. He cant get stuck with our worst defenders and expect there not to be a drop off and he cant cover the mistakes like Gobert can. Play good/decent defenders with Favors and it will be good. Gobert and Conley have played a lot together against second units. JC was shooting lights out and it was making things easy, but that is dropping off. Same could be said of Mitchell.

Play Conley, Ingles, Oni, Royce, and Gobert and we will easily have the best defense in the NBA. Swap in Favors and it will still be very good, but not quite as elite.

 

[Ron Mexico]

I am noting now that when Favors plays with Oni, Conley, Niang, or Gobert (more obvious) our defense is very good, even elite.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I am noting now that when Favors plays with Oni, Conley, Niang, or Gobert (more obvious) our defense is very good, even elite.

The deeper I look at our team the more I think Oni needs to play more and we should strongly consider our trade options with Bogie.

Oni has high on/off splits outside of the garbage time minutes he's played. In march he shot 44% from three... he is 47% from the corners overall. He gets his shot off really quick. Defense is solid and rebounding has been great.

I think we can get a reasonable facsimile of the good stuff Bogey gives us with Niang, Ersan... so even if the trade market didn't bring us something amazing I think we could be okay.

I think the Orlando swap of Bogey and a 2024 1st for Aaron Gordon is fairly reasonable and would have some appeal to Orlando and us. The more I hear about Gordon's market the more I am convinced that if they move him that he would be in our price range. Minny apparently had a deal centered around Ricky and draft stuff for Aaron... Minny already is out one pick so they have the same kind of dance we do... doubt they give up an unprotected first. They have some young players they could add but apparently that deal was "close" prior to Gordon getting hurt. I have no links... just been said in a few pods.

 

[silesian]

We shall see but I always considered the teams you mentioned to be better than us in a playoff series of healthy. The question is are we in that class? I think we are close... let’s see what happens I guess.

Agree 100%. I think we are still tier 1b. You can't possibly put Donovan in the same category as Bron, Harden, or Kawhi. But you could argue that our 3-8 is the strongest in this group.

 

[silesian]

The schedule isn’t as good as we think it is. It’s soft but still some good teams... we have bottom feeders but there are plenty of 50/50 games

Sure. There are 34 games left so of course there are some games against very good teams. The soft schedule just means that there are fewer of them for us than for other top teams. Schedule softness swings a few games over this period.

Dan Clayton has an excellent graphic on this (a few games old)

 

[Cptgrnlngs22]

If Detroit is in a rebuild and are still looking for draft assets a swap of bogie with draft capital for grant would be amazing. Not sure what Detroit is wanting to do with him at the moment.

Also for minor tweaks it looks like BJelly and Parker could be had from the kings with a 2nd and youth????


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