BYU joining a bcs conference rumor again
- Thread starter fishonjazz
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Duck Rodgers
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That sounds about right. And realistically, that would be a real target date goal probably for the Athletic Department. 5 years after Independence. I think the part about what FISH said in regards to Board of Trustees guys being more on board now is at least correct. Whatever happened that first time around, BYU was in serious discussions, and might've overplayed their hand because there was so much going on at that point, and they didn't know what their TV network was ultimately going to become or how Independence scheduling would shape up. They are in a better spot to give themselves a fair self-assessment now which should lead to more fruitful negotiations.
green
Well-Known Member
I think what happened was this:
Utah left and BYU over-reacted. I'm not saying Independence is bad, I think it is a lot better for BYU than the MWC. BUT, I do think Holmoe went to the BOT and told them Independence was great, TV deals, more home games, ESPN = more money. They said ok, and BYU went Independent. Then a year later, the Big 12 did their whole song and dance, talked to BYU and Holmoe went to the BOT and the BOT said, "hold on. Just a year ago you told us Independence was the way to be. We now control tv, we control the schedule, we have games for BYUtv and we have more revenue than we had before. We like where we are. We don't want to give up tv, we don't want to give up control over scheduling, and games on BYUtv. No go on the Big 12."
Then a year or two has happened since then, and boosters, etc have complained enough about wanting to go into the BCS that their stance has softened.
I honestly believe that if BYU never goes independent, they are in the Big 12 right now.
Here is the real question:
What is BYU willing to do to be competitive in the Big 12? I remember hearing Van Pelt talking about a PAC-12 coach that told him whenever a 5 star kid they are recruiting starts to be recruited by an SEC team they back off because they know they can't "afford" that kid. Is BYU willing to take chances on kids? Are they willing to give kids like Star a second chance? Look the other way at a party with a kid like Teo? If not, the Big 12 could be very, very depressing for them. Believe me, I know. And Utah is willing to take second chances on kids. Some have worked out (Star), some haven't (Josh Gordon, Cleveland Brown WR). BYU probably gets an unfair shake in the press when a kid goes south, and will they be ok with that if that means they can get some kids in that could really be amazing for them? That is the real question here.
Also, the Wisconsin/ND games will be huge for BYU as far as gauging how they would perform in a BCS conference. Right now, they are 2-2 against BCS teams. They are 0-2 vs Utah and Virginia, mediocre teams. They are 2-0 against Texas (a good team, but they lost their QB early in the BYU game) and GT (a terrible BCS team). If they finish out 2-4, then yikes. You thought it's been ugly for Utah...would BYU fans be okay with a couple of seasons with no bowl games?
In some ways, Independence/MWC is nice. You can get a bowl game every year. You can really plan for 2-4 teams every year and know you will probably win the other 8-10 by just showing up. You can claim then Big 12/PAC 12 stinks and you would dominate it, but not have to deal with the week in week out grind, etc. It is tough going into a new conference, especially one where your ones are good, but your 2's and 3's are terrible compared to the other teams.
I wonder how long Bronco/Holmoe would last if BYU missed a bowl two years in a row. Utah has only missed one bowl and Whitt is having rumblings about his job. That's crazy. That isn't realistic.
Another thing, is BYU willing to pay their head coach and assistants enough to keep them around. Whitt is being paid middle of the road PAC-12 money, and he gets double what Bronco gets. I bet Sitake and Dennis Erickson make more than all of BYU's assistants combined.
I would love to have BYU in a BCS conference, because it doubles the amount of fun games I get to watch every weekend, but it is a hard road, and I wonder if BYU and BYU fan are ready for the commitment it takes to be successful.
I personally think independence was the right choice with Utah and TCU leaving the MWC. I think BYU has done well with their scheduling the last couple years. I'm under no illusion the Big 12 would be easy. I think BYU has the potential to be a Kansas State type program there: middle of the pack most years with the ability to leap to the top when "the stars align". This is also how I see Utah in the PAC 12. Ultimately, I hope and think BYU gets in the Big 12.
fishonjazz
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Very good post.
green
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Well, there is my two right posts then. Dang.
fishonjazz
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Both were honest, unbiased, fair, and well thought out posts.
That's all I could ask for
Seems plausible.
Not so sure about that.
Take chances? Sure. Look at Van Noy, for example. Look the other way? No. I think the program suffered too much embarrassment from that type of thing (what was that 8-10 years ago?) and the board of trustees issued an edict saying "this is not good for the church"
Interesting point, and valid. I don't know how much money BYU is willing to pay the coaches. Perhaps if they get BCS-type money in a TV deal then they'll increase the coaches' pay.
green
Well-Known Member
Van Noy is a stud, no doubt about it. The problem is, he isn't enough. What if he gets hurt? Then BYU is in big trouble. I don't know if you can find that many kids to get the depth you need AND the talent you need to be competitive.
That is what worries me about BYU jumping to the BCS. One Van Noy isn't enough. Especially if that one Van Noy gets hurt. Now, imagine if BYU takes a chance on Teo. Now all of the sudden you have Van Noy AND Teo. That completely changes things.
Also, BYU joining the Big 12 isn't the slam dunk in Texas that you think it might be. Texas kids are Texas kids. There are so many Texas teams in that state, and those kids usually don't want to leave. You have Texas, A&M, then Oklahoma, then TCU/Tech/Ok St. Then you might have BYU. So, you have to filter down through a lot of schools before a kid will even look at you. The only reason why Utah gets the Texas kids they do is because they all come from the same high school.
7StraightIsGreat
Well-Known Member
This is such a great post. When I look at what I hope Utah can become in the PAC, I don't have any illusions of becoming USC or Oregon. I think Utah's dream scenario is to become like Washington. A solid PAC 12 team that gets into the Rose Bowl once or twice per decade. I would be over the moon if that happened.
It's been very interesting to see how these bigger conferences can take it's toll. At the time of the MWC split, I felt like TCU had a better football program than Utah, BYU, and Boise State. Now, they are just another team in the Big 12. I honestly hope BYU gets to move to a bigger conference, but get ready for a HUGE slice of humble pie Cougar fans. Us Ute and TCU fans are still choking on it.
7StraightIsGreat
Well-Known Member
I agree with the consensus that the Big 12 is BYU's likely landing spot. However, I think the PAC would be such a better fit. If it ever did happen, I'd like to see Utah moved and placed in the PAC North division with the Y.
green
Well-Known Member
I agree with this. Washington is a great example for Utah. The state of Utah has the third highest # of kids with DI scholarships and NFL players in the West, behind California and Arizona. There is talent here. Utah needs to keep that talent in house. They also need to be able to get those skill players from Arizona and Cali.
I've never been as high on TCU as everyone else in the world. I think they were elevated above Utah and Boise because they were a Texas team. Utah is a better program, and has shown that with how much more successful they have been in the PAC-12 (which isn't saying much). Plus, Utah isn't in Texas. TCU was Andy Dalton and speed on defense and nothing else. Like Boise was a weak schedule and Kellen Moore.
green
Well-Known Member
This on the PAC-12. There is ZERO chance BYU gets in. Expansion is about money. The only way the PAC-12 expands is if Texas and Oklahoma come, or if in 10 years Vegas/Boise/Albuquerque is a big enough market to be included in a tv deal.
Couldn't agree more.
7StraightIsGreat
Well-Known Member
There's a 1% chance. An insane scenario does exist in which Texas and Oklahoma give the finger to the Big 12 and settle into the PAC 16 Southern Division. BYU and either SDSU or UNLV are added to round it up to 16 teams. SDSU or UNLV takes Utah's spot in the South as Utah gets booted to the North with BYU. Mass hysteria ensues.
Duck Rodgers
Well-Known Member
Complete rubbish. BYU's strength of schedule is ranked anywhere from 13-23 depending on whose formula you are using. RIGHT NOW. What don't you understand about that? Quit acting like every BCS teams play Alabama every week. And Georgia Tech is "terrible" because they are 6-3 with the 14th ranked defense in the country? Ummmmmm ok. There are about 80 teams that wish they were that terrible.
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
Good.
I'd rather be in the BIG 12 than in the PAC anyway. The BIG 12 typically has better football teams and is light years ahead in hoops. PAC 12 hoops sucks. BIG 12? Baylor, Texas, and Kansas? Yes! Utes can enjoy playing Washington or Colorado in hoops. No one will be watching anyway. While ill happily watch BYU vs Kansas on prime time on ESPN!
I'd rather be in the BIG 12 than in the PAC anyway. The BIG 12 typically has better football teams and is light years ahead in hoops. PAC 12 hoops sucks. BIG 12? Baylor, Texas, and Kansas? Yes! Utes can enjoy playing Washington or Colorado in hoops. No one will be watching anyway. While ill happily watch BYU vs Kansas on prime time on ESPN!