Colorado Shooting

[fishonjazz]

The point is that if any ban is going to be based on some sort of functionality like semi-auto, large capacity magazines, barrel length, etc. then you'll be banning more than just so called assault rifles. In the civilian market there is no ultimate defining characteristic of an assault rifle. So if some new gun restriction is going to happen it will likely be along the lines of the overall pretty stupid AWB (assault weapon ban) that happened sometime in the 90s. The AWB banned guns with 2 primarily cosmetic features from a list, like having a collapsible stock (which is a very nice accommodation that can allow say a dad, mom and teenage children to all comfortably, accurately and safely fire the same gun with a quick adjustment), or a flash suppressor, or a pistol grip, or a detachable magazine, or a grenade launcher or bayonet (lol).

So if what we think is smart is to ban cosmetic features and pat ourselves on the back for doing something about gun violence I guess we can go for it.

Sometimes cosmetic features envoke a certain mentality so maybe banning said cosmetic features decreases a certain mentality. Idk.

Just saying that no one should care if an AR-15 can't be bought if a hunting rifle that does the same thing can be bought..... That is of they are in fact the same. I don't think they are the same though because of that mentality I was speaking of.

As I said before, I have never seen a co worker showing off pictures and bragging about their hunting rifle. But a tricked out AR-15? Hells ya! Makes their panties wet as ****.
I don't think anyone should be getting wet panties over a gun or showing them off and bragging about them. I think that kind of mentality is part of the problem with gun culture in our country.

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[Gameface]

Sometimes cosmetic features envoke a certain mentality so maybe banning said cosmetic features decreases a certain mentality. Idk.

Just saying that no one should care if an AR-15 can't be bought if a hunting rifle that does the same thing can be bought..... That is of they are in fact the same. I don't think they are the same though because of that mentality I was speaking of.

As I said before, I have never seen a co worker showing off pictures and bragging about their hunting rifle. But a tricked out AR-15? Hells ya! Makes their panties wet as ****.
I don't think anyone should be getting wet panties over a gun or showing them off and bragging about them. I think that kind of mentality is part of the problem with gun culture in our country.

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I definitely see your point and I agree that the current glamorization of AR-15 style guns is a problem in and of itself that contributes to the current out of control gun culture.

 

[gandalfe]

Yes, the AR15 has been used in many mass shootings (4 or more victims). And if they get banned, we may see a 30 rd Remington hunting rifle could used with similar effect. So gun proponents would worry it would be next on the hit list (a continuing erosion of their guns rights). But the AR platform is super customizable for different applications, unlike a standard hunting rifle. They are definitely different. They are also the same, in that all guns are dangerous and can be used to kill humans. Any semi-auto could do similar damage. Even a .22. The .223 round has high velocity, but is a very small round. A +P or +P+ 9mm hollow point pistol round would be more devastating.

While mass shootings are all over the national media, handgun deaths (without looking up the actual stats) account for the lion share of shooting deaths in this country by a LARGE margin (not Large Marge). More concealable, etc, and the ammunition has become even deadlier with new technologies. Again, another big mountain to climb to ban semi-auto handguns (likely won't ever happen), but they cause many more deaths.

GOP Sen. Kennedy compared these shootings to drunk driving a few days ago (saying you don't get rid of sober drivers when drunk driving is a problem). Not the best analogy and he received a lot of media backlash. However, I do agree that if the goal is to save lives, we should look at all avenues (not Kennedy's point), and shore up laws that can save laws (drunk driving laws in most states are quite lax). But with gun control, mass shootings and deaths from AR15/"assault rifles" account for a miniscule amount of the total gun deaths each year, but they are sensationalized by politicians and the media, and are the focus of gun control. It is ludicrous. Yes, they are a problem. Yes, we should do something, but the focus should be on handguns. Mass shootings are limited to four or more deaths, if you move that number to 3, the number rises by a gigantic margin, and most are attributable to handguns.

So I will Agree with Kennedy, that we should treat guns like alcohol. I also agree we need to crack down on drunk driving, which has impacted many of my friends and family. If you leave your liquor cabinet unlocked and your kids and their friends get drunk and kill someone, you will be held responsible. The same should apply consistently with guns. Keep them secure, or face legal consequences. Sell to someone who is ineligible (think minor for alcohol), face consequences.

Even with a total AR ban, do we take guns away or just prevent future purchases? Are those purchases limited to new manufactured guns or used market too? Will it be a taking to not allow someone to sell their own property? What will the cost be to collect 20mm+ guns in this country? How many people will fight and kill to keep their guns? Would it be constitutional to ban a gun someone already owns?

It may seem like I am anti-gun. I am not. I am anti-politician (both sides). I get sick of the same disingenuous arguments on both sides. However, I am a proponent for additional background checks (state checks should be done along with federal background checks for every purchase, even private sales). I'm not sure if magazine limitations will do anything, or if an AR ban would either, other than focus the discussion on the "next gun up".

A well functioning society should focus on finding the root cause of violence and focus on it along with other protective measures. It is a less of a "hot-button" political issue, that both parties should get behind. Mental health, drug use and homelessness are big problems. Start there, and keep the process moving to make gun ownership smarter, and move the chains within the realm of what the 2nd Amendment allows. At some point, we may have enough votes to amend the 2nd amendment, until then, let's be logical and move the yardstick where we can.

Suicides by gun outnumber murders and accidents by a large margin as well - nearly double, if I recall correctly (something like 7.4 per 100000 people vs 4.1).

I definitely see your point and I agree that the current glamorization of AR-15 style guns is a problem in and of itself that contributes to the current out of control gun culture.

Someone in the thread up above (too lazy to look it up) mentioned that they have an AR-15 and it's a lot of fun to shoot. And that, right there, is a lot of why they're so commonly used.

 

[Gameface]

Suicides by gun outnumber murders and accidents by a large margin as well - nearly double, if I recall correctly (something like 7.4 per 100000 people vs 4.1).

And suicides by gun are almost always done with a handgun.

Someone in the thread up above (too lazy to look it up) mentioned that they have an AR-15 and it's a lot of fun to shoot. And that, right there, is a lot of why they're so commonly used.

I guess. I had one for a while and I didn't enjoy it. Ammo was too expensive and I was not happy with my accuracy using it with a heads-up red dot sight. I probably should have just taken the red dot sight off and tried it with iron sights but I was already over spending so much on ammo that I didn't see a path to wanting to shoot it often. I've always been of the philosophy that if I own a gun I want to use it often and be extremely familiar with how to use it properly, safely and accurately. That wasn't a gun I felt like putting any work into so I sold it at a loss a couple months after I bought it. It was a really nice model, a commemorative edition from Bushmaster. I think I took it out twice and it just wasn't for me.

 

[bigb]

Sometimes cosmetic features envoke a certain mentality so maybe banning said cosmetic features decreases a certain mentality. Idk.

Just saying that no one should care if an AR-15 can't be bought if a hunting rifle that does the same thing can be bought..... That is of they are in fact the same. I don't think they are the same though because of that mentality I was speaking of.

As I said before, I have never seen a co worker showing off pictures and bragging about their hunting rifle. But a tricked out AR-15? Hells ya! Makes their panties wet as ****.
I don't think anyone should be getting wet panties over a gun or showing them off and bragging about them. I think that kind of mentality is part of the problem with gun culture in our country.

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I enjoy my AR-15 and love to shoot it. Personally, I don’t think it makes me that “type of guy”. I do see others like that though, so I can agree to an point with your reasoning.
Where does it stop though? What about cosmetic features of cars? It could be said that most cars used in illegal road races have x, y, and z features. We want to stop illegal road races, so we need to ban them all. It doesn’t matter that millions upon millions of people have those same aftermarket spoilers and do nothing illegal with them. The mentality of the spoiler is causing the illegal road racing. Too damn bad for all the law abiding citizens.


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[fishonjazz]

I enjoy my AR-15 and love to shoot it. Personally, I don’t think it makes me that “type of guy”. I do see others like that though, so I can agree to an point with your reasoning.
Where does it stop though? What about cosmetic features of cars? It could be said that most cars used in illegal road races have x, y, and z features. We want to stop illegal road races, so we need to ban them all. It doesn’t matter that millions upon millions of people have those same aftermarket spoilers and do nothing illegal with them. The mentality of the spoiler is causing the illegal road racing. Too damn bad for all the law abiding citizens.


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I would be fine with banning vehicles that envoke people to drive more dangerously.

I just don't really understand why people get so butt hurt about not being able to buy a specific type of gun or car for that matter.

There are lots of other guns and cars to buy. I'm probably just too practical and not emotional enough about material possessions I guess.

I drive a silverado. If silverados were to be banned tomorrow I wouldn't care. I would just drive something else.

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[idestroyedthetoilet]

Sometimes cosmetic features envoke a certain mentality so maybe banning said cosmetic features decreases a certain mentality. Idk.

Just saying that no one should care if an AR-15 can't be bought if a hunting rifle that does the same thing can be bought..... That is of they are in fact the same. I don't think they are the same though because of that mentality I was speaking of.

As I said before, I have never seen a co worker showing off pictures and bragging about their hunting rifle. But a tricked out AR-15? Hells ya! Makes their panties wet as ****.
I don't think anyone should be getting wet panties over a gun or showing them off and bragging about them. I think that kind of mentality is part of the problem with gun culture in our country.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app

I think I disagree, but Im not inside the deranged head of one of these shooters. I also think it's silly to trick out an AR-15 so maybe my view is different. All the accessories aren't making the gun more deadly in these mass shootings. They do the opposite by making them heavier and more cumbersome. What are you going to do, set up your tripod on Miss Julie the art teacher's desk and turn your laser pointer on?

I just don't see someone having an infatuation with tricking out a gun changing them into a lunatic. That's a little too superficial of a motivator for me. I think it's much deeper and having easy access to a tool makes taking action easier.

 

[Gameface]

I would be fine with banning vehicles that envoke people to drive more dangerously.

I just don't really understand why people get so butt hurt about not being able to buy a specific type of gun or car for that matter.

There are lots of other guns and cars to buy. I'm probably just too practical and not emotional enough about material possessions I guess.

I drive a silverado. If silverados were to be banned tomorrow I wouldn't care. I would just drive something else.

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I drive the car that gets the most speeding tickets...

I love it.

Oh, and I speed in it. Non-stop. You'd have a harder time catching me going the speed limit than you would catching me speeding. That said, I've never gotten a ticket in the car. I have a pretty good idea where they set up for speed traps, been driving in this valley since '93.

 

[Getting Traded]

I drive the car that gets the most speeding tickets...

I love it.

Oh, and I speed in it. Non-stop. You'd have a harder time catching me going the speed limit than you would catching me speeding. That said, I've never gotten a ticket in the car. I have a pretty good idea where they set up for speed traps, been driving in this valley since '93.

I get out of the way of drivers like you. I used to speed when I started driving years ago, but when I was 20 years old, I was in a head-on collision. That was the end of my speeding.

 

[Gameface]

I get out of the way of drivers like you. I used to speed when I started driving years ago, but when I was 20 years old, I was in a head-on collision. That was the end of my speeding.

Thank you for getting out of my way!

 

[babe]

So if a regular semi automatic hunting rifle and an AR-15 are basically the same thing, then no one should be upset if the AR-15 is banned right? I mean if the AR-15 were banned you could just go buy a semi auto hunting rifle and it would cost less too and you would still essentially have an AR-15 right?

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I don't think it is really like that.

The AR-15 uses a 0.223 bullet but with a helluva lot more powder behind its in the shell, which is wider than the bullet. The Ruger 0.22, which is the cheap one Game showed above generally comes with a 10-bullet clip, but you can buy a 25 bullet clip, or two and duct tape them together so all you have to do turn the assembly around , even with a long shell has less range and force. I've seen some hunters use the "hunting" AR-15 carefully sighted used by a good shooter to take a deer at 600 yards. Really hard to do that with the Ruger 0.22.

The military version of the A15 uses a larger shell even than that, with a slightly different caliber and I think a different bullet casing and twist rate.

I think that design is drop-dead style.

When you get specialists from several big gunmakers to work together to design a military bullet, you can do wonders with a 5.56 mm.

 

[Gameface]

I don't think it is really like that.

The AR-15 uses a 0.223 bullet but with a helluva lot more powder behind its in the shell, which is wider than the bullet. The Ruger 0.22, which is the cheap one Game showed above generally comes with a 10-bullet clip, but you can buy a 25 bullet clip, or two and duct tape them together so all you have to do turn the assembly around. , even with a long shell has less range and force. I've seen some hunters use the "hunting" AR-15 carefully sighted used by a good shooter to take a deer at 600 yards. Really hard to do that with the Ruger 0.22.

The military version of the A15 uses a larger shell even than that, with a slightly different caliber and I think a different bullet casing and twist rate.

The "military" uses the NATO 5.56mm in the M16 and M4, most "civilian" AR-15s are made for .223. The rounds will both fit in either gun but the 5.56 is a higher pressure round and may cause issues, potentially catastrophic issues, in a civilian AR-15. However, I've heard of plenty of people shooting 5.56mm out of their AR-15.

I knew when I posted that comparison that they shot significantly different ammo. So, is a new restriction going to include caliber? I doubt it. And if it did people could fairly easily pick a different type of round for the post-ban version of the AR-15.

This is a Mini-14, it fires the same ammo as the AR-15.