Coronavirus

[infection]

If I didn't value human life more than money, I would be okay with Trump (over 70 and overweight) and a bunch of Congress and government officials and the Supreme Court sacrificing their lives for the common good, and a whole bunch of conservative voters. But I'm not that person, and I hope I never am.

Comparing COVID-19 to automobile accidents and other illnesses that contribute to daily death tolls makes little sense as those things typically are not contagious. There is little I can do in my daily life that prevents someone getting cancer or speeding.

The question is more about if we should shut down driving for 40k lives. Now, I’m not suggesting that “lol 40k lives, who cares, lol,” but the fact that it would be a legitimate solution and it’s a question we haven’t asked, and one we’re comfortable not asking and ignoring because we wouldn’t want to live with the inconvenience it would cause to daily life.

 

[fishonjazz]

The question is more about if we should shut down driving for 40k lives. Now, I’m not suggesting that “lol 40k lives, who cares, lol,” but the fact that it would be a legitimate solution and it’s a question we haven’t asked, and one we’re comfortable not asking and ignoring because we wouldn’t want to live with the inconvenience it would cause to daily life.

And I still worry about the deaths that could be caused by a great depression. I think those lives matter too. I think old people's lives matter but I also think a combination of old lives and all other age lives matter even more.

If there were an extreme recession/depression and the world economy just crumbled then how many lives would we lose as a result?

These questions have relevance. It isn't black and white.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[Zombie]

The question is more about if we should shut down driving for 40k lives. Now, I’m not suggesting that “lol 40k lives, who cares, lol,” but the fact that it would be a legitimate solution and it’s a question we haven’t asked, and one we’re comfortable not asking and ignoring because we wouldn’t want to live with the inconvenience it would cause to daily life.

 

[Zombie]

It would be nice if the behaviors we learn during this Covid crisis (better hygiene, not going to work sick etc) help us practice the same behaviors in future flu seasons, which would save a lot of lives every year.

As for car crashes I live along I-80 in the middle of wyoming, I've long thought that Americans are more than a little reckless when it comes to taking their lives in their hands, especially in the winter.

 

[Deleted member 365]

 

[NUMBERICA]

I think the question, from a superficial level, sounds like prioritizing other things over life, but the question isn’t asked about a lot of things. 40k deaths a year on roads isn’t questioned. Nearly 100k deaths due to alcohol isn’t questioned. Obviously we don’t know what the exact death toll will be, but as a hypothetical, it’s good to ask the question, and I am asking this non-rhetorically: what’s the minimum level that warrants shutting things down indefinitely? 5k deaths? 1k? There’s not a right or wrong answer here, but if we’re saying even even 15k, then we have some real re-evaluating to do in many other ways in which we tolerate death as a risk and not just with motor vehicles and alcohol.

If we don't practice proactive and widespread social distancing the death toll will be in the millions.

 

[infection]

If we don't practice proactive and widespread social distancing the death toll will be in the millions.

In the US or world wide?

 

[Agent#00]

Few updates from Shanghai.
- a french family arrived in my compound and was asked to leave or go thru a facility by the local residents.

- an American friend of mine was walking down the street and a local yelled at him told him to go away or go home.

- new hentavirus brewing

- my coworker told my boss I need to self quarantine at home since I came from the Philippines last week. I have already been working about a week in the office and My compound didn't require me but my boss asked so now I work at home.

- cycling is back they don't wear mask. Some locals don't wear mask.

- exotic animals now forbidden at supermarkets.

- if you see a person in the street or bus with a whith tag on their wrist and ankle it means they were infected with cov and had just recovered. You need to keep distance.

- Wuhan residents can now travel

- shanghai have 78 foreign cov as we speak and it's alarming the authorities.

 

[infection]

Perhaps you’re misreading me. I’m not arguing a right/wrong here or dismissing deaths because something else that we don’t think about causes the same amount of deaths, but more asking about our underlying assumptions that’s guiding very strong beliefs. And I believe people feel patronized about comparisons to automobile fatalities, but to flip that around, I think people are being patronizing to automobile fatalities. My point is more asking ourselves to question, to what amount of human life sacrifice do we draw the line for shutting down the economy indefinitely for? I won’t get in to how that will cause death in other ways, but the decision doesn’t exist in a vacuum. My assumption is that for a lot of people, they’d say 5k is too many (this is independent of someone’s prediction but more a question of where they draw the line). I’m not here to argue if that’s right or wrong and I’m not passing judgments on anyone, but it warrants further evaluating that belief and looking at some comps, not as a ‘gotcha,’ but for honest discovery of how we view human life vs. life convenience, and not to believe that we value human life higher just by viewing one situation in isolation.

 

[sahlensguy]

No telling if sacrificing the lives of the elderly would save the economy though. It's a blood sacrifice to a god who may not even exist. What a waste of life and humanity that would be.

 

[Zombie]

Perhaps you’re misreading me. I’m not arguing a right/wrong here or dismissing deaths because something else that we don’t think about causes the same amount of deaths, but more asking about our underlying assumptions that’s guiding very strong beliefs. And I believe people feel patronized about comparisons to automobile fatalities, but to flip that around, I think people are being patronizing to automobile fatalities. My point is more asking ourselves to question, to what amount of human life sacrifice do we draw the line for shutting down the economy indefinitely for? I won’t get in to how that will cause death in other ways, but the decision doesn’t exist in a vacuum. My assumption is that for a lot of people, they’d say 5k is too many (this is independent of someone’s prediction but more a question of where they draw the line). I’m not here to argue if that’s right or wrong and I’m not passing judgments on anyone, but it warrants further evaluating that belief and looking at some comps, not as a ‘gotcha,’ but for honest discovery of how we view human life vs. life convenience, and not to believe that we value human life higher just by viewing one situation in isolation.

I didn't really mean for that to be a rebuttal of anything you said, it just reminded me of that tweet I saw earlier today.

As for the rest of your post it's an interesting thought experiment. At a certain point deaths within a period of time will cause economic fallout regardless of where an individual person may draw the line for themselves I think. I'd warrant that number is a lot lower when the deaths are caused by something communicable and novel.

 

[infection]

I didn't really mean for that to be a rebuttal of anything you said, it just reminded me of that tweet I saw earlier today.

As for the rest of your post it's an interesting thought experiment. At a certain point deaths within a period of time will cause economic fallout regardless of where an individual person may draw the line for themselves I think. I'd warrant that number is a lot lower when the deaths are caused by something communicable and novel.

True. I think the Joker speaks some wisdom here, where our collective psyches remain unharmed by things that go according to plan. Flu deaths, motor vehicle accidents, alcohol related deaths, etc., are all part of a plan. We’ve lived with them. It’s the devil we know. We don’t like it, but we’re accustomed to it and not alarmed at its presence. Something like this is the devil we don’t know, it’s something unexpected, something we didn’t anticipate, and something not according to plan. An ‘unplanned’ death here causes far greater psychological dysphoria than several ‘planned’ deaths elsewhere, especially with the unknown.