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the exaggeration you selected would have no outsized impact on the pandemic in the United States.
I never said it would. The outsized impact is on the trust the people put into institutions because they can see that institutions lie.

As far as people trusting the Presidential elections, that has been a drum I've been beating from the very beginning. Claiming that elections are illegitimate for this reason or that is standard operating procedure. That goes for claiming Russian influence on the 2016 election. It goes for Stacey Abrams claiming she was the rightful governor of Georgia. It goes for Trump and the 2020 election. It goes for the claims being made by a large number of Democrats, including Biden, of all future elections being illegitimate if the voting rights act isn't passed. All of it is the same lie and everyone telling this lie should be condemned for it.
 
and people not taking pain pills when in pain aren't dying or being hospitalized. People who aren't getting vaccinated are. I still know people who aren't vaccinated so they aren't being forced and besides there were anti vaxxers before any kind of mandate and even before covid. I had a co worker say that he wouldn't put that crap in his body right after the vaccines were announced and he smokes 2 packs of smokes a day lol.

then he's just a dickhead

There's actually a bunch of vaccinated people being hospitalized here. Again, the risks are so far and away age, health status .
 
Your concern for my reputation is so very kind of you.


True.


Describe the types of credit you feel should be given that are not.


I already take an annual flu booster. Why does every six months violate a principle, and every year does not?


Statements by whom? I don't recall the CDC or similar authorities claiming there would be 100% protection against infection and transmission. When you make statements like this, it really lessens the risk to my reputation should I choose to say you are lying, and I know how concerned you are about my reputation.



So far, I haven't heard of any new variants on the horizon, and that is good news.


In the US, among the 46 states that report mortality by age, only 4 states have reported no child deaths.

Of course, there are other comorbidities as well.


What the hazard ratio in myocarditis following a vaccine versus following a covid19 infection?


Fair enough. I find your ignorance of child deaths in the US to be callous and uneducated. Further, I find your comparison of vaccine injuries to only people who get neither vaccine nor disease, as opposed to those who get the disease, to be bordering on antivax propaganda.


This would be as opposed to no cardiac issues with unvaccinated young men who acquire covid19?


To be clear, I don't see you as being an unreasonable person, just a bit of a contrarian.


your call, fair enough.. I think you are often deliberately facetious/quietly sarcastiic particularly with those you disagree with. Which i enjoy.

so .. couple of points with tongue partly in cheek but maybe not ? the graph attached Natural immunity deniers really need to retract their ... lies dare i say ? In the light of this CDC data how can any thinking person argue that someone like Novak Djokovic shoud be vaccinated after already having Covid ? The difference is so negligible that you can't possibly rationally argue that someone who's had Covid has to be vaccinated.

Flu boosters have been around for how many years, tested for how long ? And the known rate of serious adverse reactions ?? Now we're being mandated after 3 months here in a lot of sectors. Again the flu shot / Covid booster Not the same, the flu shot is not being used under emergency authorisation, the manufacturers are not legally responsible for reactions, nobody is being mandated to take a flu shot. This sort of answer makes you look like you're either being argumentative for the sake of it or just pulling examples to prove your pre conceived bias.

I have heard Joe Biden, and other politicians particularly early in the piece specifically say "you will not get Covid" if you are vaccinated. And the messaging from our governments here was very much firstly "you won't get it" to then "you cannot spread it" etc etc. Pfizer reported 100 % efficacy in it's early trials as a starting point. If you are going to argue that the goal posts have constantly shifted about the claims of the vaccine .. then well again see above.

Children .. in Australia over the course of the pandemic ONE child aged 5-11 has died with Covid. That poor soul had terminal cancer. So yes here zero mortality in this age. You yourself have just acknowledged comorbidities which i have always said "in healthy children" I consider kids being overweight a comorbidity for Covid so let me make that clear, and i can only assume how poor the health of the average american kid is and how overweight so many are. So again .. see above.

Myocarditis you're right i do need to look into in more detail. I know from speaking to Doctor friends that they say it is very underreported. I'd find it astonishing if you don't think pharmaceutical companies haven't had an influence in sweeping adverse reactions under the carpet. I dare say in time this will be understood better. I am certainly coming from the point of view that "first do no harm" is really important You would have a different starting point of accepting a certain amount of collateral damage in order to achieve a certain outcome ?


I certainly don't see you as being unreasonable. I think if you're honest you'd have to consider that you start with your own strong opinions and try to at least to a degree see things that support those unless it's quite clear you're wrong. As we all do.
 

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then he's just a dickhead

There's actually a bunch of vaccinated people being hospitalized here. Again, the risks are so far and away age, health status .
No actually, Facts matter


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Want to avoid infection, hospitalization, or possible death? Get vaccinated and boosted.
 
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I have heard Joe Biden, and other politicians particularly early in the piece specifically say "you will not get Covid" if you are vaccinated. And the messaging from our governments here was very much firstly "you won't get it" to then "you cannot spread it" etc etc. Pfizer reported 100 % efficacy in it's early trials as a starting point. If you are going to argue that the goal posts have constantly shifted about the claims of the vaccine .. then well again see above.
If we were talking about the pre-delta and omicron Covid strain, yes. America was averaging 13,000 cases and 300 deaths in June, mostly from unvaccinated. Just to compare, those are better numbers than we had in March 2020 when the pandemic first began.

In utah we were averaging around 200 cases and 2 deaths per day. Again, one of the lowest months of the pandemic.

Facts matter.

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It goes for the claims being made by a large number of Democrats, including Biden, of all future elections being illegitimate if the voting rights act isn't passed. All of it is the same lie and everyone telling this lie should be condemned for it.

 
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If you are checking to see if I will put Bannon in the same boat with Joe Biden and Stacey Abrams to condemn them all for casting doubt on elections, I do. I'll even go further and throw Trump himself in the condemn boat. I'm hoping the Democrats don't completely screw this up like they've bungled absolutely everything else lately to get someone, anyone convicted on a sedition charge and cite some tenuous link to being motivated by Trump so that he is barred from running for reelection due to Section 3 of the 14th Amendment. Joe Biden, Stacey Abrams, Steve Bannon and Donald Trump can all just go away as far as I'm concerned.

I find the tag line combined with the underline on this article to be a hilarious mismatch: Republicans attempt to seize absolute control over the process by.....by.....requesting that an independent party be allowed double check the count of a past election.
 
Lol i have some at home from a sore back last year. Dont be silly.
And I still haven't seen any anti pain pill protesters
Different states are handling it differently. I have an ongoing prescription for percocet, but every 3 months I have to fill out a questionnaire and my doctor has to have me get a 2nd opinion from a non-affiliated dr that it is medically necessary. As soon as he mentioned that there may be a surgical option to help with my pain they came down on my prescription and it was halted for 2 months. I still haven't had my MRI so they got another dr to confirm I needed it and resumed my prescription. It makes me and my dr feel like criminals, and for many dr's if they prescribe too much to too many people they can even get their license suspended pending state review of the cases. It is nuts. I get that there is an opioid crisis in America, but it really can affect those of us who need it very negatively. Not sure what the answer is because in many cases low-level narcotics are a better option for pain control than most anything else.
 
so .. couple of points with tongue partly in cheek but maybe not ? the graph attached Natural immunity deniers really need to retract their ... lies dare i say ? In the light of this CDC data how can any thinking person argue that someone like Novak Djokovic shoud be vaccinated after already having Covid ? The difference is so negligible that you can't possibly rationally argue that someone who's had Covid has to be vaccinated.
Looking at the hazard ratios in the CDC link, it's pretty clear you still get something like a 25% boost in the ratio if you are vaccinated after having covid19. That's not negligible.

Flu boosters have been around for how many years, tested for how long ? And the known rate of serious adverse reactions ?? Now we're being mandated after 3 months here in a lot of sectors. Again the flu shot / Covid booster Not the same, the flu shot is not being used under emergency authorisation, the manufacturers are not legally responsible for reactions, nobody is being mandated to take a flu shot. This sort of answer makes you look like you're either being argumentative for the sake of it or just pulling examples to prove your pre conceived bias.
I'm mandated to take flu shots. In the US, you can get tested regularly instead of getting a vaccine in almost all cases, and free testing sites are wide-spread.

There have been hundreds of millions of shots, and the contents of the mRNA vaccines are known to have a short duration in the human body.

I have heard Joe Biden, and other politicians particularly early in the piece specifically say "you will not get Covid" if you are vaccinated. And the messaging from our governments here was very much firstly "you won't get it" to then "you cannot spread it" etc etc. Pfizer reported 100 % efficacy in it's early trials as a starting point. If you are going to argue that the goal posts have constantly shifted about the claims of the vaccine .. then well again see above.
Yes, the claims have shifted as the vaccine has shifted, no arguments there.

Children .. in Australia over the course of the pandemic ONE child aged 5-11 has died with Covid. That poor soul had terminal cancer. So yes here zero mortality in this age. You yourself have just acknowledged comorbidities which i have always said "in healthy children" I consider kids being overweight a comorbidity for Covid so let me make that clear, and i can only assume how poor the health of the average american kid is and how overweight so many are. So again .. see above.
I am *very* tired of seeing people throw around "comorbidity" as if it means the death doesn't matter or was inevitable. My age and sex are both comorbidities for the covid, even though I'll probably live another 30 years (based on family history) and have no intention of changing the latter. If you almost certainly would have been alive but for covid19, you were killed by covid19.


I am certainly coming from the point of view that "first do no harm" is really important You would have a different starting point of accepting a certain amount of collateral damage in order to achieve a certain outcome ?
All vaccines (and all prophylactic medicines) carry a risk of harm. I have a starting point that you have to look at the overall risk for both the patient (and the community, when talking about communicable diseases).

I certainly don't see you as being unreasonable. I think if you're honest you'd have to consider that you start with your own strong opinions and try to at least to a degree see things that support those unless it's quite clear you're wrong. As we all do.
I certainly learn more from you than from most posters I have disagreements with, and I am very appreciative for that.
 
The thing about Covid is it's made you rethink everything about how you feel. This week, I've felt really tired and just unenergetic. No sore throat, headache, fever, anything like that, I just feel like I'm operating at half-speed.

Do I have Covid? Am I just worn down from work? If I do get sick, is it Covid or the normal cold?

I'll be very glad when this peak finally wears off as the drop will probably be swift.

Go out for a four mile run and you’ll feel fine.
 
What’s kinda funny is that folks like Rand Paul are the ones killing off conservatives by feeding them disinformation. Crazy times.

 
IMHO, again a good article from a Dr Edward Laane (use built in translation in browser).
How is the general situation in Alaska (as probably the closest in climate wise and population density to Estonia than any other state)? For example, hospitals and whether schools operate normally or not?
 
IMHO, again a good article from a Dr Edward Laane (use built in translation in browser).
How is the general situation in Alaska (as probably the closest in climate wise and population density to Estonia than any other state)? For example, hospitals and whether schools operate normally or not?
Alaska has about 2% the population density of Estonia. Minnesota is a probably better comparison in both density and climate.
 
IMHO, again a good article from a Dr Edward Laane (use built in translation in browser).
How is the general situation in Alaska (as probably the closest in climate wise and population density to Estonia than any other state)? For example, hospitals and whether schools operate normally or not?
Google translate is pretty amazing. Sometimes it gets it really wrong though. lol

"We're not talking about the virus disappearing, it's staying with us. Just as we get a runny nose every year, we're likely to end up with a coronary heart. And if it's a runny nose or a sore throat, humanity has to come to terms with it. "I'm not getting sick anymore," said Edward Laane.
 
Google translate is pretty amazing. Sometimes it gets it really wrong though. lol
the sentence: Nii nagu me haigestume igal aastal nohusse, jääme tõenäoliselt ka koroonasse. Ja kui see väljendub nohus või kurguvalus, siis tuleb inimkonnal sellega leppida means: Like we get runny nose every year, we are also going to get some kind of coronavirus. And if the experience of the end user is runny nose or sore throat, then we just have to accept it.
Estonian language has indeed some funny aspects; for example - "puu särk" means "shirt belonging to tree" while "puusärk" means "coffin". Pronouncation is almost same to ears of the foreigner.
 
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