Coronavirus

[infection]

That link gives me an error but that might be on my end. I am fairly confident China has done more tests. I was just in Beijing where they did mass testing of about half the city and witnessed it. They have done over 90 million tests. Also producing the vast majority of tests for the world, but that's another issue. Either way your statement or quote that USA has done more tests in July than any other country has overall is incorrect.

Edit: I don't know how USA is testing but China is doing mass testing by panels. Meaning they do 1 test for I think 5-10 people then if it's positive everyone tests individually. So it might be less tests but more people. But still that's not a correct number.

I'm not sure how to respond to that. The first thing I'd note is quite possibly a certain level of irony when you're saying China's reports are accurate, while simultaneously not being able to access that website from China. The other is that multiple sources other than Johns Hopkins have stated the US has done more testing. I could be wrong, but my supposition on why they're saying that isn't because they think the US' response has been amazing or because they're in love with the administration. But let's play along with the numbers for a moment:

90 million tests? They're reporting that they've had a total of 84,125 confirmed cases. If we were to pretend, for instance, that the specificity for the testing was 99.9% (which is an ungodly generous number), then you'd see 90k cases from false positives alone! So China's either not being forthcoming about 1) the number of cases, 2) the number of tests, or 3) both.

I can't speak for or discount your personal experience of what you've witnessed with regard to testing. But I'd be curious when seeing a lot of testing there, how your ability to quantify that by observation is able to differentiate 100k from 1M from 10M from 200M. It reminds me of this scene from Harry Crumb:

 

[Red]

 

[infection]

Saw this today and chuckled.
View attachment 9601

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I get that this is an attempt at humor, and I'm being a stick in the mud, but things like this become telling because they require a certain cultural framework with which the contextualization of the scenario is supposed to make this humorous. But it requires the reinforcement of a number of things that aren't true in the way in which we perceive them.

For instance, here's the current deaths per 100k population, per Johns Hopkins, as of today:

Belgium: 86.11
UK: 62.5
Spain: 60.87
Italy: 58.13
Sweden: 56.27
USA: 46.07
France: 45.12
Netherlands: 35.78
Switzerland: 23.24
Germany: 11.2

Mortality Analyses - Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Center

How does mortality differ across countries? Examining the number of deaths per confirmed case and per 100,000 population. A global comparison.

coronavirus.jhu.edu

And, yes, we have many, many more confirmed cases than these countries. But what about testing? Here's how many tests each of those same countries have run:

Belgium: 1.21M
UK: 9.12M
Spain: 4.35M
Italy: 6.69M
Sweden: Not disclosed.
USA: 53.83M
France: Not disclosed.
Netherlands: 0.96M
Switzerland: Not disclosed.
Germany: 8M

Total COVID-19 tests

Comparisons across countries are affected by differences in testing policies and reporting methods.

ourworldindata.org

I get that this is way more information than what the superficial level humor is supposed to be. But it's important to look at because it identifies our cultural understanding of this problem, which doesn't align as smoothly with the actual data. And, yes, we can appeal to the idea that Trump's a chode, and many in the US are stupid, and that chodes and stupid people will mismanage pandemics through their stupidity, but ultimately we have to ask if these are comfortable beliefs that reinforce our biases, or if there are other important areas of critical thinking that need to happen that we bypass because "lol."

 

[LogGrad98]

View attachment 9628

It is. That's how I got to the astral plane.

 

[Deleted member 365]

Sad to see that one-time presidential candidate and Trump surrogate Herman Cain passed away due to Covid. I still remember his 9-9-9 plan fondly.

Didn't agree with him politically and question some of his character, but death (a preventable one at that) is a bitter pill to swallow for anyone.

Maybe he wouldn’t have died if he had just worn a mask? He attended Donald’s Tulsa rally without a mask and downplayed the risks of covid for weeks.
Thoughts and prayers

 

[Deleted member 365]

This is becoming quite the news story. Both republican congressional aides and White House staffers are reporting that they’re being berated for wearing masks.

 

[fishonjazz]

I get that this is an attempt at humor, and I'm being a stick in the mud, but things like this become telling because they require a certain cultural framework with which the contextualization of the scenario is supposed to make this humorous. But it requires the reinforcement of a number of things that aren't true in the way in which we perceive them.

For instance, here's the current deaths per 100k population, per Johns Hopkins, as of today:

Belgium: 86.11
UK: 62.5
Spain: 60.87
Italy: 58.13
Sweden: 56.27
USA: 46.07
France: 45.12
Netherlands: 35.78
Switzerland: 23.24
Germany: 11.2

Mortality Analyses - Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Center

How does mortality differ across countries? Examining the number of deaths per confirmed case and per 100,000 population. A global comparison.

coronavirus.jhu.edu

And, yes, we have many, many more confirmed cases than these countries. But what about testing? Here's how many tests each of those same countries have run:

Belgium: 1.21M
UK: 9.12M
Spain: 4.35M
Italy: 6.69M
Sweden: Not disclosed.
USA: 53.83M
France: Not disclosed.
Netherlands: 0.96M
Switzerland: Not disclosed.
Germany: 8M

Total COVID-19 tests

Comparisons across countries are affected by differences in testing policies and reporting methods.

ourworldindata.org

I get that this is way more information than what the superficial level humor is supposed to be. But it's important to look at because it identifies our cultural understanding of this problem, which doesn't align as smoothly with the actual data. And, yes, we can appeal to the idea that Trump's a chode, and many in the US are stupid, and that chodes and stupid people will mismanage pandemics through their stupidity, but ultimately we have to ask if these are comfortable beliefs that reinforce our biases, or if there are other important areas of critical thinking that need to happen that we bypass because "lol."

It was about other countries not letting us in to their countries because they think we suck at the handling of the pandemic. What part of that is untrue?
Have other countries not closed their borders to Americans? If the answer is yes, then why do you think they did?
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[leftyjace]

I get that this is an attempt at humor, and I'm being a stick in the mud, but things like this become telling because they require a certain cultural framework with which the contextualization of the scenario is supposed to make this humorous. But it requires the reinforcement of a number of things that aren't true in the way in which we perceive them.

For instance, here's the current deaths per 100k population, per Johns Hopkins, as of today:

Belgium: 86.11
UK: 62.5
Spain: 60.87
Italy: 58.13
Sweden: 56.27
USA: 46.07
France: 45.12
Netherlands: 35.78
Switzerland: 23.24
Germany: 11.2

Mortality Analyses - Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Center

How does mortality differ across countries? Examining the number of deaths per confirmed case and per 100,000 population. A global comparison.

coronavirus.jhu.edu

And, yes, we have many, many more confirmed cases than these countries. But what about testing? Here's how many tests each of those same countries have run:

Belgium: 1.21M
UK: 9.12M
Spain: 4.35M
Italy: 6.69M
Sweden: Not disclosed.
USA: 53.83M
France: Not disclosed.
Netherlands: 0.96M
Switzerland: Not disclosed.
Germany: 8M

Total COVID-19 tests

Comparisons across countries are affected by differences in testing policies and reporting methods.

ourworldindata.org

I get that this is way more information than what the superficial level humor is supposed to be. But it's important to look at because it identifies our cultural understanding of this problem, which doesn't align as smoothly with the actual data. And, yes, we can appeal to the idea that Trump's a chode, and many in the US are stupid, and that chodes and stupid people will mismanage pandemics through their stupidity, but ultimately we have to ask if these are comfortable beliefs that reinforce our biases, or if there are other important areas of critical thinking that need to happen that we bypass because "lol."

Why do you use deaths per 100K population, but you don't reflect tests by the same standard - per capita?

Let's take that same list of countries you put there, and for those that disclosed, show them as tests per 1M population. BTW, some of your "not disclosed" is BS.

Belgium: 139,627
UK: 231,744
Spain: 142,835
Italy: 111,690
Sweden: 80,200
USA: 172,956
France: 45,681
Netherlands: 56,189
Switzerland: 90,626
Germany: 95,532

Source: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

 

[infection]

It was about other countries not letting us in to their countries because they think we suck at the handling of the pandemic. What part of that is untrue?
Have other countries not closed their borders to Americans? If the answer is yes, then why do you think they did?
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Exactly. Other countries, and us, think we suck at handling the pandemic. That's the starting premise. The data is fit in around the narrative. And the reason the meme is intended to be funny is due to a cultural understanding of a belief that we suck at managing the pandemic. First we mismanaged the pandemic by not doing testing, then we mismanaged the pandemic by the deaths, then when we did testing we mismanaged the pandemic because "OMG the cases." But when you actually look at a comparison of data, it doesn't exactly spell out what our cultural meme says it does.

 

[infection]

Why do you use deaths per 100K population, but you don't reflect tests by the same standard - per capita?

Let's take that same list of countries you put there, and for those that disclosed, show them as tests per 1M population. BTW, some of your "not disclosed" is BS.

Belgium: 139,627
UK: 231,744
Spain: 142,835
Italy: 111,690
Sweden: 80,200
USA: 172,956
France: 45,681
Netherlands: 56,189
Switzerland: 90,626
Germany: 95,532

Source: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

The reason I did deaths per 100k and tests by total is because that's the data set I had. I had wanted consistency and was going to do that, but wasn't going to calculate those out from the data set I was using. I appreciate you linking it above. With regard to why the ones weren't disclosed, it's because they were not listed on the data set I provided (go click the link), and I didn't want to fill them in with different sources. But those were France, Switzerland, and Sweden. If you'll look at the results you've linked above, those omissions do not diminish my point but support it. So thank you for bringing that to the table.

 

[fishonjazz]

Exactly. Other countries, and us, think we suck at handling the pandemic. That's the starting premise. The data is fit in around the narrative. And the reason the meme is intended to be funny is due to a cultural understanding of a belief that we suck at managing the pandemic. First we mismanaged the pandemic by not doing testing, then we mismanaged the pandemic by the deaths, then when we did testing we mismanaged the pandemic because "OMG the cases." But when you actually look at a comparison of data, it doesn't exactly spell out what our cultural meme says it does.

So the cultural understanding of our handling of the pandemic is worldwide (every culture believes we sucked) AND not accurate? Damn that deep state is a powerful mofo. The US was fantastic in their handling of the pandemic but Trumpers are the only ones who can see it. Sounds totally plausible lol.

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[infection]

So the cultural understanding of our handling of the pandemic is worldwide (every culture believes we sucked) AND not accurate? Damn that deep state is a powerful mofo. The US was fantastic in their handling of the pandemic but Trumpers are the only ones who can see it. Sounds totally plausible lol.

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None of those are issues I've ever endorsed, implied, or spoken. But if there's a certain schema of expectation, this speaks to the societal perception of this as a meme that's not grounded in any reality (e.g. I've said those things?). My larger point is that if anyone was blinded to the data, the US is only standing out in terms of larger death totals (3rd largest country in the world, and our population is 4x the population of the largest country in western Europe) and case numbers. The former disappears when you correct for population. The latter remains present, but when you account for the fact that we're testing more and that our positive case numbers aren't translating at all to a proportional increase in deaths, it makes it harder to justify that the US is some large outlier. Unless, of course, we have some wonderful, magical healthcare system that's preventing all these deaths that would otherwise be suggested with such a high case load, but that magical healthcare system isn't something I've been hearing about, certainly not in the last decade. So if one were truly blinded to the data, they'd have an impossible time picking who's the US and who isn't when controlling for population.

The bottom line is that this is a pandemic. This is a virus. There are many variables that will account for what transpires with the virus, and politics is only a small part of that. What we're convincing ourselves is that politics is the main variable in the equation of COVID outcomes. And that's just not true. The US is not exceeding or "winning" on COVID compared to other nations. But the US is also not this drastic failure on COVID that everyone is talking about. If you'd like to make an argument otherwise, let's talk data. Let's not talk "hey, a lot of people are saying this, so it probably true."