Dear FRONT OFFICE: NO ONE WANTS TO WIN GAMES WITH RJ AND MW!

[Jeditiger]

The point I care about isn't what impact they've had on their development, but their impact on the wins and losses of this season. Where they fit in with the future,
and the impact of keeping them all year.

Do you want to keep them him all year? I don't. If they've learned these things now, will they unlearn if they leave. and more importantly will keeping them here impact our draft pick?

Actually I would love for the Jazz to re-sign Marvin. RJ has his own prerogative, and hopefully the Jazz can find him a home on a contender before this season is over. I'm not worried about draft picks at this point. That stuff will sort itself out.

 

[GVC]

The point I care about isn't what impact they've had on their development, but their impact on the wins and losses of this season. Where they fit in with the future,
and the impact of keeping them all year.

Do you want to keep them him all year? I don't. If they've learned these things now, will they unlearn if they leave. and more importantly will keeping them here impact our draft pick?

Learning is a process. Marvin and RJ are helping the young guys learn. They still have a lot to learn. Do you really think experience/mentoring are of no value?

I think it's reasonable to think that succeeding in an appropriate and well-defined role and winning games helps players learn better and faster. Players absolutely can regress when placed in poor situations where they're bound to fail. I think it's ridiculous to put losing games ahead of development at this point, especially since this team won't be as bad as Milwaukee, Philly or Orlando unless they unload their young talent. For the most part, the young guys have been given ample opportunity and responsibility to learn and grow. I wouldn't mind seeing Alec take a few more of RJ's minutes, but that's a minor gripe (and Alec is overrated on this site). It's unfortunate that you've already written off the young players on this team.

With that said, if the Jazz can acquire something for Jefferson, they should definitely consider it. Rush has been playing better of late and Alec has shown improvements playing off-ball this season. Like everyone else on this site, I don't know what goes on behind the scenes, or how much of an impact RJ is having on the young guys. He and Trey seem to have a good relationship on and off the court, but again, I don't know the relative value of that and whatever assets you can get for RJ. Like jeditiger, I think the draft will sort itself out, and the focus should be on how to best use and develop the talent currently on the team.

 

[Revolution 9]

Learning is a process. Marvin and RJ are helping the young guys learn. They still have a lot to learn. Do you really think experience/mentoring are of no value?

I think it's reasonable to think that succeeding in an appropriate and well-defined role and winning games helps players learn better and faster. Players absolutely can regress when placed in poor situations where they're bound to fail. I think it's ridiculous to put losing games ahead of development at this point, especially since this team won't be as bad as Milwaukee, Philly or Orlando unless they unload their young talent. For the most part, the young guys have been given ample opportunity and responsibility to learn and grow. I wouldn't mind seeing Alec take a few more of RJ's minutes, but that's a minor gripe (and Alec is overrated on this site). It's unfortunate that you've already written off the young players on this team.

With that said, if the Jazz can acquire something for Jefferson, they should definitely consider it. Rush has been playing better of late and Alec has shown improvements playing off-ball this season. Like everyone else on this site, I don't know what goes on behind the scenes, or how much of an impact RJ is having on the young guys. He and Trey seem to have a good relationship on and off the court, but again, I don't know the relative value of that and whatever assets you can get for RJ. Like jeditiger, I think the draft will sort itself out, and the focus should be on how to best use and develop the talent currently on the team.

Playing time is the most important thing. Coaching staff, ALL the vets, practice, film, etc. We agree they are helping, but we are nowhere close on the impact. Let's leave it at that.

Sorting itself is all fine, and dandy if this opportunity wasn't in front of us. Where do the vets fit into our future? Is this group as is good enough to compete for a title in 3 years. If not what additions will help that?

I see the draft as the best possible way to get the missing piece. It's not fail safe, and there is risk. Right now on paper I believe it's the way we should be going. If what you say is true about the learning process, and I agree with lots of it then isn't it time to let RJ and Marvin go if we can? I'd like to see Hayward play with Trey without RJ. Can Hayward be that guy. It's time to find out before we have to decide on the contract.

 

[Revolution 9]

Actually I would love for the Jazz to re-sign Marvin. RJ has his own prerogative, and hopefully the Jazz can find him a home on a contender before this season is over. I'm not worried about draft picks at this point. That stuff will sort itself out.

Where does Gobert fit into the future if Marvin is resigned? We should take a look at extending Marvin(heavens knows we are acting like his is part of the future now). Drafting/adding a vet shooter this offseason is another option.

 

[Jeditiger]

Well Rudy and Marv play different positions, but I think they both give us a ton of versatility with our bigs. I'm ok with letting RJ walk, but Marvin has value. If we could trade him for other assets then I can live with that. But we ultimately need players to play, and Marvin seems like he fits for the time being.

 

[GVC]

If what you say is true about the learning process, and I agree with lots of it then isn't it time to let RJ and Marvin go if we can?

Uh, no. The 5 young guys are playing leading roles, on-ball. RJ and Marvin are playing complementary off-ball roles. For the 5 young guys to play on-ball as much as possible, you need players to be filling in off-ball.

I'd like to see Hayward play with Trey without RJ. Can Hayward be that guy. It's time to find out before we have to decide on the contract.

Can Hayward be what guy? Hayward has played lots of minutes with Trey and without RJ. What are you trying to say here?

 

[GVC]

Sorting itself is all fine, and dandy if this opportunity wasn't in front of us. Where do the vets fit into our future? Is this group as is good enough to compete for a title in 3 years. If not what additions will help that?

What does it matter where the vets fit into the future?

What opportunity are you talking about? No, this group is likely not good enough to compete in 3 years. If this group were losing loads of games, this group plus a top pick would not be good enough to contend in 3 years. Even with the recent success, this group plus a top pick is likely not good enough to contend in 3 years. This is Kevin Durant's 7th year in the league. The Thunder didn't get past the 1st round of the playoffs until his 4th year in the league. It's unlikely anyone in this upcoming draft ends up as good as KD OR Westbrook.

As such, I'm going to hope for good basketball, and enjoy it when it comes. DL did a good job this past summer. It'll be interesting to see what he does over the next 6 months or so.

 

[GVC]

Where does Gobert fit into the future if Marvin is resigned?

Gobert is a late 1st round pick. He's nowhere close to being a decent rotation player in the NBA. In today's NBA, Favors, Kanter AND Gobert are all best suited to play the 5. Hopefully he works out better than Jeremy Evans.

 

[JimLes]

Where does Gobert fit into the future if Marvin is resigned?

Back up centre playing 10-15 minutes a game. Same place he'd fit if we didn't re-sign Marvin.

 

[Hitman]

Yes they are. You don't even understand what your post said. Did you read your own thoughts? For heavens sake son.
You talk about credible outside shooters, and their importance. Then try, and say its ALL the core 5. Oh I agree with you that is
mainly the core 5. doh. In fact the main factor is Trey. He is the glue. He is the driving force. However, if you take out RJ, and Marvin we have more losses. because as you said "Without credible outside shooters, we would be back to where we were 2 years ago, with defences playing "with one foot in the paint". The big men would face endless double-teams in the post and defenders would be free to help off their man whenever we tried to run a pick-and-roll."
If you think differently then what we'll just agree to disagree.

Sigh. I'll try again, since you've missed my point.

The Core 5 are developing because RJ and MW are facilitating them by playing their complementary roles - provide spacing with their outside game, running the offence, being the last option. Take out RJ and MW and we're back to where we were when JLIII was running the show - no spacing, no offence, no more development of the Core 5. Winning is just a side-effect from their development. After waiting years for them to be given this opportunity, do we really want to handicap the Core 5 now?

Also: who says MW isn't going to be back next year? RJ has said he's not coming back, but I haven't seen any indication from either side that MW isn't coming back.

 

[Revolution 9]

Sigh. I'll try again, since you've missed my point.

The Core 5 are developing because RJ and MW are facilitating them by playing their complementary roles - provide spacing with their outside game, running the offence, being the last option. Take out RJ and MW and we're back to where we were when JLIII was running the show - no spacing, no offence, no more development of the Core 5. Winning is just a side-effect from their development. After waiting years for them to be given this opportunity, do we really want to handicap the Core 5 now?

Also: who says MW isn't going to be back next year? RJ has said he's not coming back, but I haven't seen any indication from either side that MW isn't coming back.

Oh stop with your silly banter. I missed the point? I just disagree with you on how valuable an aging vet is, and Marvin Williams to our core's progress. And you made several ridiculous statements I will address below.


Take away RJ, and Marvin, and we are not "back to where we were when JLIII was running the show " Hello. We have Trey Burke.
Getting rid of the RJ, and Marvin won't handicap their development for heaven's sake. They won't shrivel up and die without Richard Jefferson. Get a grip. What they have learned from them won't go away, and be forgotten if we get rid of them. I really don't care that they've been here up until now. I'm saying it's time
to get rid of them, in the least RJ, so we know what we have in Hayward specifically.

The core 5 are developing first and foremost, because they are playing more.

 

[GVC]

I'm saying it's time to get rid of them, in the least RJ, so we know what we have in Hayward specifically.

How does getting rid of RJ help us know what we have in Hayward? Hayward's playing BIG minutes, playing both on- and off-ball, defending both the 2 and 3. Makes no sense.