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Gay marriage in Utah put on hold

One Brow said:
I appreciate you have a very strong opinion on this, and for you it is firmly founded. I have no expectation you will change your mind.
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That's why I don't usually enter gay marriage discussions. The same is true of both sides--opinions are very strong, and it's highly unlikely either side can/will say anything to cause the other side to change its mind.

That said, when you are defending the position formulated by Beantown against the position of Darkwing Duck, I really think it's time to carefully examine if those strong emotions are coloring your judgement regarding the worth of the particular argument being used.
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I haven't mentioned anything remotely religious yet in anything I've said about gay marriage recently, since I feel that no religious arguments are needed, but perhaps now is the time to break out a religious quote. Regardless of how you feel about Beantown, I think I'm standing in good company when I agree with Gordon B. Hinckley, Thomas S. Monson, and James E. Faust--to whom traditional marriage was clearly important and clearly different than gay marriage.

WE, THE FIRST PRESIDENCY and the Council of the Twelve Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, solemnly proclaim that marriage between a man and a woman is ordained of God and that the family is central to the Creator’s plan for the eternal destiny of His children.
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THE FIRST COMMANDMENT that God gave to Adam and Eve pertained to their potential for parenthood as husband and wife. We declare that God’s commandment for His children to multiply and replenish the earth remains in force. We further declare that God has commanded that the sacred powers of procreation are to be employed only between man and woman, lawfully wedded as husband and wife.

WE DECLARE the means by which mortal life is created to be divinely appointed. We affirm the sanctity of life and of its importance in God’s eternal plan.
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THE FAMILY is ordained of God. Marriage between man and woman is essential to His eternal plan. Children are entitled to birth within the bonds of matrimony, and to be reared by a father and a mother who honor marital vows with complete fidelity.
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From: https://www.lds.org/topics/family-proclamation

That's mainly for the benefit of the pro gay marriage LDS members in the crowd (because I don't expect the nonLDS people to necessarily value the opinion of those men, but hopefully the LDS members do). While I'm the first to admit that LDS church leaders are fallible (yes, even the prophet), to use One Brow's phrase I would very carefully examine (i.e. ponder and pray) the strong emotions coloring my judgment regarding the worth of the particular arguments being used if I were that opposed to their clear teachings (in my opinion) on the subject.
 
Gameface said:
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Still requires one woman and one man= heterosexual
 
colton said:
That's why I don't usually enter gay marriage discussions. The same is true of both sides--opinions are very strong, and it's highly unlikely either side can/will say anything to cause the other side to change its mind.



I haven't mentioned anything remotely religious yet in anything I've said about gay marriage recently, since I feel that no religious arguments are needed, but perhaps now is the time to break out a religious quote. Regardless of how you feel about Beantown, I think I'm standing in good company when I agree with Gordon B. Hinckley, Thomas S. Monson, and James E. Faust--to whom traditional marriage was clearly important and clearly different than gay marriage.



From: https://www.lds.org/topics/family-proclamation

That's mainly for the benefit of the pro gay marriage LDS members in the crowd (because I don't expect the nonLDS people to necessarily value the opinion of those men, but hopefully the LDS members do). While I'm the first to admit that LDS church leaders are fallible (yes, even the prophet), to use One Brow's phrase I would very carefully examine (i.e. ponder and pray) the strong emotions coloring my judgment regarding the worth of the particular arguments being used if I were that opposed to their clear teachings (in my opinion) on the subject.
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As a very active Mo (I'm Jack, nice to meet you), I have no problem with anything you said there. I don't begrudge these men their beliefs or teachings. Like you and them, I agree, traditional marriage is clearly important and clearly different than gay marriage. That doesn't mean that just because someone chooses to be different than me, it is my duty to force them to be like me, or take away/deny them basic human rights and freedoms because they don't. It really is very simple: Love one another. Be excellent to each other. Party on, dude.
 
Darkwing Duck said:
So a childless marriage isn't a family then. Gotcha.

A couple who adopts a child isn't a family. Gotcha.
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-A childless marriage is not a family by definition. Which is why married couples say that want to "make a family".

-When a couple adopts.....that child is born through heterosexual relations.

Damn you stupid.
 
Beantown said:
Biologically yes. If homosexuality is evolutionary trait then it is a "weak" trait.
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So if someone has downs, I suppose that could be an evolutionary trait that is "weak" also then? I'm seriously asking, because your implications are scary.
 
Gay couples who want to have kids are going to adopt whether or they're married. Or at least they'll try. This is speculation but I bet the ones that can't for whatever reason will try and get a kid on their own, and then will still live with their partner. Or see them often. I don't know how adoption works. But by stopping them from getting married you're already hurting this kid.

Would these non-adopted kids be better off in an orphanage, or a foster home or in a loving family that happens to have same-sex parents?

By preventing people from shacking up you're just being a ****ing *******. And showing a complete lack of empathy for gay people. Put yourself in someone else's shoes for like, ten minutes... that really should be enoough.
 
E.J. Wells said:
As a very active Mo (I'm Jack, nice to meet you), I have no problem with anything you said there. I don't begrudge these men their beliefs or teachings. Like you and them, I agree, traditional marriage is clearly important and clearly different than gay marriage. That doesn't mean that just because someone chooses to be different than me, it is my duty to force them to be like me, or take away/deny them basic human rights and freedoms because they don't. It really is very simple: Love one another. Be excellent to each other. Party on, dude.
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Chooses to be different? Who wants to open this can of worms while speeding down a slippery slope?
 
Mormons believe alcohol is immoral, that smoking is immoral, that gambling is immoral... that coffee is immoral. These things aren't illegal. Where is the lobby for these things to be illegal? Why can't you be cool with allowing consenting adults to do their thing under the law while still holding moral reservations about it, as you do with so many other vices out there? Why does your belief have to be intertwined with legality? I don't understand.
 
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