Get off our plane! Now!

[RandyForRubio]

Now would actually be a decent time to buy United stock.

 

[♪alt13]

They look ok to me unless I'm looking at the wrong post? Granted I'm on a PC currently. Did it just take a second to "fix" itself?

Post 82 in this thread.

It's not a big deal but the response is within the quote although it was not written up that way.

 

[Rubashov]

Airfares are actually one of the only things i can think of that has actually got significantly cheaper in the last 20 odd years. Hell i can book a return flight to the US next week for 1200 bucks. (bout 850-900 USD) used to be around 2200-2500.

 

[LogGrad98]

Airfares are actually one of the only things i can think of that has actually got significantly cheaper in the last 20 odd years. Hell i can book a return flight to the US next week for 1200 bucks. (bout 850-900 USD) used to be around 2200-2500.

It has actually changed significantly depending on where are flying from and to. I could jet around Europe in the cheap-seats (EasyJet) for 100 euro round trips for the right flight and right time, but you cannot move around within the United States for even 3X that amount anymore, whereas 20 years ago there were a load of $99 one way fares. Not anymore.

 

[Safetydan]

Good discussion.

I have a question, though. Multiple people in this thread (Ronmexico and Justthetip) have stated that he agreed to give up his ticket, received a voucher, changed his mind and ran onto the plane only to get his *** kicked off the plane. I've read this nowhere.

All accounts I've read state that he was on the plane, got randomly selected for involuntary boarding denial (after boarding, mind you), refused, got beat up, dragged off and at that point he ran back on the plane bleeding from the mouth.

In what publication does it include the alternative account? Source please.

 

[LogGrad98]

Good discussion.

I have a question, though. Multiple people in this thread (Ronmexico and Justthetip) have stated that he agreed to give up his ticket, received a voucher, changed his mind and ran onto the plane only to get his *** kicked off the plane. I've read this nowhere.

All accounts I've read state that he was on the plane, got randomly selected for involuntary boarding denial (after boarding, mind you), refused, got beat up, dragged off and at that point he ran back on the plane bleeding from the mouth.

In what publication does it include the alternative account? Source please.

Good question. I have seen this portrayed multiple ways in the media. I wish we could have a source that put it all together cleanly in a play-by-play sort of way.

 

[LogGrad98]

Good discussion.

I have a question, though. Multiple people in this thread (Ronmexico and Justthetip) have stated that he agreed to give up his ticket, received a voucher, changed his mind and ran onto the plane only to get his *** kicked off the plane. I've read this nowhere.

All accounts I've read state that he was on the plane, got randomly selected for involuntary boarding denial (after boarding, mind you), refused, got beat up, dragged off and at that point he ran back on the plane bleeding from the mouth.

In what publication does it include the alternative account? Source please.

Good question. I have seen this portrayed multiple ways in the media. I wish we could have a source that put it all together cleanly in a play-by-play sort of way.

Not a bad overview here. Still no word about whether he left first then reboarded, but the narrative here suggests he never left the plane voluntarily:

https://viewfromthewing.boardingare...man-dragged-off-united-flight-stop-happening/

There are a lot of myths about the situation, and it’s leading people to some bad conclusions.

•This didn’t happen because United sold too many tickets. United Express (Republic Airlines) had to send four crew members to work a flight the next morning. The weekend was operationally challenging, this was a replacement crew, if the employees didn’t get to Louisville a whole plane load of passengers were going to be ‘bumped’ when that flight was cancelled, and likely other passengers on other flights using that aircraft would have their own important travel plans screwed up as well.


•United couldn’t have just sent another plane to take their crew even if they had such a plane it’s not clear they had the crew to operate it legally, or that they could have gotten the plane back to Chicago in time legally so prevent ‘bumping’ via cancellation the whole plane load of passengers it was supposed to carry next.


•If the passenger could have just taken Uber, why not the crew? because United doesn’t get to transport its crew any way it wishes whenever it wishes, they’re bound by union contracts and in any case they were following standard established procedures. We can debate those procedures, that’s productive, but United didn’t do anything out of the ordinary.


•United should have just kept increasing the denied boarding offer passengers didn’t willingly get off at $800, they should have gone to $1000 (would that have made a difference?) or $5000 or $100,000 — it’s not the passengers’ fault United didn’t have enough seats. Though the time this would have taken might have lost a takeoff window or taken time where the crew went illegal (and the whole flight had to cancel) or the replacement crew wouldn’t get the legally required rest.

More importantly, United didn’t do it because Department of Transportation regulations set maximum required compensation for involuntary denied boarding (in this case 4 times the passenger’s fare paid up to a maximum of $1350). So they’re not going to offer more than that for voluntary denied boardings, especially since the violent outcome here wasn’t expected and the United Express gate agent had no authority to do more.

 

[LogGrad98]

This is a normal thing:

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/11/involuntary-airline-re-accomodations-happen-all-the-time.html

Overall, the number of passengers getting bumped (either voluntarily or not) is down from a high in the late 1990s.

Still, those involuntary bumps are pretty substantial: That 40,000 is out of more than 650 million total passengers on the year. Consider it this way: one out of every 16,000 fliers. That may seem small on a percentage basis, but when you consider how many people fly in America every day, those numbers start to add up fast. More than 100 people every day around the country, just on those 12 carriers, are being denied their chance to fly, without negotiating a voluntary bump.

By law, bumped passengers can receive up to $1,350 in compensation. The average amount received was around $800, according to Airhelp.com.

Now add that 40,000 figure to more than 434,000 travelers who voluntarily gave up their seat. That's almost 1,200 per day.

United Airlines had almost 3,800 involuntary denied boardings last year, out of 86 million passengers. That percentage would rank them fifth out of 12 U.S. airlines.

 

[The Midnight]

We can literally discuss this til the cows come home, I just want to wait for 30 April and see what the findings from the United's own enquiries are and what they're going to do to resolve this issue.


In conclusion, for me, even if I accept that overbooking is a fact of life and it helps filling the planes, etc, the fact still stands that it also benefits United financially to do so. Therefore on the flipside, when planes are overbooked, they should be made to make better offers so people are willing to volunteer to get off the planes.


To me you can't have it both ways, you can't have the cake and eat it too. You can't benefit 99% of the time the planes aren't overbooked, then be able to just 'kick people out' in that 1% when the plane is overbooked. You reap the benefits for when you got away with it, therefore you should have to compensate people for when you run into problems.


Cos don't forget - they are already double dipping. They were able to sell seats to the flights that people missed - if those tickets are non-refundable you make that PLUS the additional seat you sold. You've effectively sold 2 seats for the price of 1.

 

[♪alt13]

It has actually changed significantly depending on where are flying from and to. I could jet around Europe in the cheap-seats (EasyJet) for 100 euro round trips for the right flight and right time, but you cannot move around within the United States for even 3X that amount anymore, whereas 20 years ago there were a load of $99 one way fares. Not anymore.

More people, shorter flights?

 

[Elizah Huge]

Sent from my iPhone using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[The Midnight]

Good discussion.

I have a question, though. Multiple people in this thread (Ronmexico and Justthetip) have stated that he agreed to give up his ticket, received a voucher, changed his mind and ran onto the plane only to get his *** kicked off the plane. I've read this nowhere.

All accounts I've read state that he was on the plane, got randomly selected for involuntary boarding denial (after boarding, mind you), refused, got beat up, dragged off and at that point he ran back on the plane bleeding from the mouth.

In what publication does it include the alternative account? Source please.

You've actually hit on an important point. I too want to know exactly what happened, because even the CEO in his letter to the employees did not mention anything about him getting off and getting back on:

Dear Team,

Like you, I was upset to see and hear about what happened last night aboard United Express Flight 3411 headed from Chicago to Louisville. While the facts and circumstances are still evolving, especially with respect to why this customer defied Chicago Aviation Security Officers the way he did, to give you a clearer picture of what transpired, I’ve included below a recap from the preliminary reports filed by our employees.

As you will read, this situation was unfortunately compounded when one of the passengers we politely asked to deplane refused and it became necessary to contact Chicago Aviation Security Officers to help. Our employees followed established procedures for dealing with situations like this. While I deeply regret this situation arose, I also emphatically stand behind all of you, and I want to commend you for continuing to go above and beyond to ensure we fly right.

I do, however, believe there are lessons we can learn from this experience, and we are taking a close look at the circumstances surrounding this incident. Treating our customers and each other with respect and dignity is at the core of who we are, and we must always remember this no matter how challenging the situation.

Oscar

Summary of Flight 3411

On Sunday, April 9, after United Express Flight 3411 was fully boarded, United’s gate agents were approached by crewmembers that were told they needed to board the flight.

We sought volunteers and then followed our involuntary denial of boarding process (including offering up to $1,000 in compensation) and when we approached one of these passengers to explain apologetically that he was being denied boarding, he raised his voice and refused to comply with crew member instructions.

He was approached a few more times after that in order to gain his compliance to come off the aircraft, and each time he refused and became more and more disruptive and belligerent.

Our agents were left with no choice but to call Chicago Aviation Security Officers to assist in removing the customer from the flight. He repeatedly declined to leave.

Chicago Aviation Security Officers were unable to gain his cooperation and physically removed him from the flight as he continued to resist - running back onto the aircraft in defiance of both our crew and security officials.