Global Climate Status Report

[fishonjazz]

If only I had a private (co2 spewing) jet to fly to one of these climate change summits, making that 115 jets total.. maybe I would be more informed.

You think you need a private jet to get information? Weird


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[fishonjazz]

What part? That I don't think climate change is 100% caused by man?

That isnt what you said in the post he quoted.
I will help you rememeber what you wrote.
You wrote: I just don't believe we are the main cause of climate change and that it is changing as fast as they want us to believe.

(I don't disagree with you about America being the main cause btw and you could be right that it's happening slower than some believe)


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[Red]

So, Red, may I ask you(and others) not to dump a lot of political oriented "news" on this thread. Just actual reports on climate change.

Again, @Red , the fact is there is political bias in current reports generally, and Nature is part of the crime. Even forty years ago, I could see the bias in Nature. Our whole society, across the entire Progressive era, has been biased in support of the movement.

Comment #226 was almost entirely articles focused on the findings of climate science. As well, Nature is regarded as one of the top peer review scientific journals in existence. The article I linked to involved a recent study by climate scientists. I can refrain from posting to your threads, but you should not expect me to agree to your standard of what actually constitutes a scientific study.

You're basically asking people to not post anything that disagrees with your predictions of what changes are in store for the Earth's climate in the future. If you did not want other opinions, you could have so stated as much at the onset. You felt free to post these same predictions in the older thread I started at the time of the UN Climate Report. I did not tell you, or anyone else, at that time, to not post anything that questioned that UN report.

 

[Red]

Just look at your hands, @Red, and whole bunch of the progressives pushers. You are playing the Rockefeller tune. You are the foot soldiers to restrict competition, reduce supplies, and make the Rockefeller holdings multiply in market value. You are working for the great Honcho Cartel.

When we’re discussing babe’s irrationality, it helps to have some level of self-reflection on our own thoughts and behaviors.

When I pointed out irrationality in babe's posts, I had in mind statements such as the quote above. The content strikes me as irrational at times. For example, his recent statements embracing the notion that we did not land on the moon(a belief he is entitled to, of course), from a different thread, was telling to me. This because I know one cannot confuse moon rocks with earth rocks. Therefore, to believe we did not land on the moon is to believe one of two things: planatary geologists(geologists who study samples from solar system bodies other then the Earth)the world over were in on NASA's attempts to fake lunar geology, or two, planatary geologists the world over we're unable to notice that the lunar rock samples lent to them for research, by NASA, were in fact earth rocks, and not lunar rocks. Ignoring these facts, while concluding we did not land men on the moon, is an irrational argument. This is the type of irrational argumentation I had in mind.

Admittedly, in his quote above, I have never understood the basis for his belief in this apparent global conspiracy he is describing, and in which he identifies me as a "foot soldier"!!

The behavior of mine, that you are apparently referencing, is not laden with that type of irrational arguments. What you are referring to is a single mindedness on my part for pointing out the historical importance of Trumpism, the dangers involved in electing demagogues, etc. I recognized the man as, basically, "a clear and present danger" to our democracy and society. And I present that perspective frequently. What I do not do is support it with irrational arguments.

Single minded focus is not equivalent to irrationality. That single mindedness may not be healthy at times. We could argue that point, but the fact that I take time to lay out points, the long windedness on my part, is not itself an irrational behavior.

 

[Red]

Your posts are invariably informative, Red. You’re a fixture here now, not an outsider at all. The forum wouldn’t be the same without you.

I thank you, @Jonah. Coming as it does from yourself, one of the most thoughtful posters here, IMHO, that means a great deal to me.

 

[reignman40]

You think you need a private jet to get information? Weird


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Yet you probably choose to ignore how hypocritical these climate change extremist are. Flying into climate change summits, taking massive yaughts. I'm sure there isn't an once of meat or seafood being served on those yaughts either...

Same thing with the Paris Accord, it's just a circle jerk off of eleitist telling other people how to live. While they increase their carbon footprint..

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[fishonjazz]

Yet you probably choose to ignore how hypocritical these climate change extremist are. Flying into climate change summits, taking massive yaughts. I'm sure there isn't an once of meat or seafood being served on those yaughts either...

Same thing with the Paris Accord, it's just a circle jerk off of eleitist telling other people how to live. While they increase their carbon footprint..

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Ok

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[babe]

Comment #226 was almost entirely articles focused on the findings of climate science. As well, Nature is regarded as one of the top peer review scientific journals in existence. The article I linked to involved a recent study by climate scientists. I can refrain from posting to your threads, but you should not expect me to agree to your standard of what actually constitutes a scientific study.

You're basically asking people to not post anything that disagrees with your predictions of what changes are in store for the Earth's climate in the future. If you did not want other opinions, you could have so stated as much at the onset. You felt free to post these same predictions in the older thread I started at the time of the UN Climate Report. I did not tell you, or anyone else, at that time, to not post anything that questioned that UN report.

NO........

At least I don't think so.

OK, so what is the point of almost all the material being run out about Global Warming, or Climate Crisis????? The justification of spedific political change, and economic change.... deemed essential to deal with problems of climate change or sea level change.

I think we know we have different directions in mind in studying the material available, or the data available.

I would run it all out as a clarion call for individual choice in our personal lives, based on objective information hopefully developed through impartial scientific studies.

The choice I would indicate would still be a turn..... individually or in business development plans..... away from dependence upon or heavy use of fossil fuels. But I would want to see studies done on other potentially concerning sources of climate change. Stuff like our own Earth's internal nuclear heat generation, or the stuff we encounter from Space in our motion through it...... Just need actual data on these things...... and changes in our rotation/inclination with respect to the Sun...... and Solar cycles...... Balanced serious study on every imaginable factor.....

So, although I'm down for political BS as much as anyone..... I would like to get people actually thinking about all these things, and encouraging more research.

 

[babe]

I thank you, @Jonah. Coming as it does from yourself, one of the most thoughtful posters here, IMHO, that means a great deal to me.

We know Jonah is smart.... and is another hack for the Progressive Agenda.....

 

[babe]

STFU, you ignorant fool. No one has said this. But some scientists have said we have already reached a turning point to control climate change. Big difference from your misinformed comment.

Most people are not prepared to examine the basis of any "conclusion" some scientists have opined. Their statements are no better than their information, or judgment about what the information could mean.

Some of the people who call themselves scientists, or who are called "scientists" are capable of making unscientific statements. Don't just assume they are factual.

So far as I've seen, there are a number of synergistic situations in nature that can be a "tipping point".....

The ones I think these "scientists" are referring to include the fact that under our polar icecaps and permafrost, there are huge reservoirs of entrapped methane, which will be relieased when the ice all melts.

And, of course, CO2 concentration is considered by many to be in itself a tipping point.

warming oceans can be considered a tipping point thing, too.

So, there is another way to think about all these "tipping points".....as part of a cycle that will eventually run its course, giving us a period of change that is not going to be permanent.

When the methane and CO2 are converted to stores of carbonate rock.....when the earth goes into a cycle of solar radiation that cools the oceans....

 

[babe]

I think you are a wizard, infection, and extremely funny, but either you are ill-informed or purposely being disingenuous in comparing babe to Red.

Red is your fellow believer, no doubt. I don't really "believe" much, except that I believe there's more to know. Yah, well, I believe there's a God who cares about us. And there's a whole lot of reality we know so little about...... worlds unseen, unknown. Death is not the end of us. Just another beginning.

so anyway, Red is something of a spiritual believer, more than most Materialist dogmatists would consider prudent for the Cause of Progressive Change.

Some of you more purely materialist believers believe you are "funny" when ribbing me, but Red actually cares about humans. Anyway, humor is essential to human sanity, so feel free to apply yourselves to the great task of trying to be funny.

 

[babe]

So, for the record.

I have not been to the Moon, yet. Moon rocks, however, are occasionally blasted away from the Moon and fall to Earth. And Moojn Rocks don't need to be picked up by human hands. We have gizmos that can do that. I don't know how a gizmo can launch itself off the Moon any better than a manned lander, but if a manned lander can do it, so can a gizmo.

Don't work too hard trying to make a case on this subject. My only point in questioning the claims of the US government accomplishments under Tricky Dicky and all his shenanigans is to somehow unsettle the supreme mental laziness or comfort of folks like you who sincerely believe more guvmint is a better way forward.

 

[Red]

I have not been to the Moon, yet. Moon rocks, however, are occasionally blasted away from the Moon and fall to Earth. And Moojn Rocks don't need to be picked up by human hands.

Yes, I've collected meteorites since the early 80's, and I own a few lunar meteorites. At one time they were ridiculously expensive, but they've become much more affordable in just the last few years. But you need to understand that it is also very easy to distinguish lunar meteorites from lunar samples returned to Earth by the Apollo missions. You cannot mistake one for the other, with the right testing. Lunar meteorites will record a terrestrial age, that is how long ago they fell to Earth, whereas the lunar rock samples will not. I'll let you read up on the several other ways the Apollo samples can be distinguished from lunar meteorites. Suffice to say proper testing will distinguish the two.

Well, here, if you do wish to learn a bit more. The Cosmic Ray Exposure(CRE) ages will distinguish lunar meteorites from Apollo samples:

https://www.lpi.usra.edu/books/MESSII/9004.pdf

Note this from the abstract:
Rocks blasted off the Moon and Mars by asteroidal or cometary impacts represent surface areas un- likely to be sampled by manned or automated missions; their CRE ages indicate that they come from some eight different sites on the Moon and also on Mars.

Yes, I concede an unmanned mission could nonetheless collect samples.

 

[babe]

Yes, I've collected meteorites since the early 80's, and I own a few lunar meteorites. At one time they were ridiculously expensive, but they've become much more affordable in just the last few years. But you need to understand that it is also very easy to distinguish lunar meteorites from lunar samples returned to Earth by the Apollo missions. You cannot mistake one for the other, with the right testing. Lunar meteorites will record a terrestrial age, that is how long ago they fell to Earth, whereas the lunar rock samples will not. I'll let you read up on the several other ways the Apollo samples can be distinguished from lunar meteorites. Suffice to say proper testing will distinguish the two.

Well, here, if you do wish to learn a bit more. The Cosmic Ray Exposure(CRE) ages will distinguish lunar meteorites from Apollo samples:

https://www.lpi.usra.edu/books/MESSII/9004.pdf

Note this from the abstract:
Rocks blasted off the Moon and Mars by asteroidal or cometary impacts represent surface areas un- likely to be sampled by manned or automated missions; their CRE ages indicate that they come from some eight different sites on the Moon and also on Mars.

Yes, I concede an unmanned mission could nonetheless collect samples.

meteorites found on Earth will always show their history of fiery descent through our atmosphere.... surfaces oxidized maybe some nitrides also. Inside a capsule shell on Earth descent nothing gets that hot unless the capsule burns first. I imagine we have samples from every landing mission.

thanks for the links.

 

[Jonah]

We know Jonah is.... another hack for the Progressive Agenda.....

Sorry, babe, that’s never been me. Keep trying though, you do seem to really need to label people and put them in tidy little boxes. My theory is that it makes your own calcified view of the world more comforting and manageable.

 

[babe]

Sorry, babe, that’s never been me. Keep trying though, you do seem to really need to label people and put them in tidy little boxes. My theory is that it makes your own calcified view of the world more comforting and manageable.

that window you're looking at........ is not a window...... but a mirror. That's all you see.

I know I don't know much about you, except a few comments .... very few in here.... such as the above offerings..... gleeful little snide insults are not really proof of your intelligence, just proof of your belief in yourself, which you are welcome to indulge in.

But don't think for a second I won't fire back.

 

[babe]

So, a group of scientists have concluded the recent European heat wave was made worse by human caused warming. Some, like myself, trust(I am not a climate scientist; I can only try my hardest to understand the reasoning offered to support the conclusions). Others apparently believe in a broad based conspiracy, in which hundreds of scientists, world wide, are engaged in a political effort to control mankind. Well, again, there is not much I can do to reason with people who believe is such ponderous conspiracies involving so many credentialed researchers acting in concert to fool the human race.

https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiEJig5dMkOyXdgyrh7MIiHPQqGQgEKhAIACoHCAow4uzwCjCF3bsCMIrOrwM?hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US:en

I have little patience for anti-conspiracy theorist prognostications.

This is Game's little nut. Conspiracies exist in some sense whenever anyone winks at anyone else with some little inside joke..... all it takes is a few people with a similar world view, or a specific interest to promote.

The present situation in science, in which it is popular, or somehow beneficial, to hop on the climate change political hackwagon, is nothing more than lazy convenience for most "believers", whose only common trait might be credulousity. Expert credulousity though it may be.

I think things are changing. I believe, despite some concerns about data collection and management, that our planetary atmosphere is warming, as most of the hackwagon crowd believes. I just don't think it is such a crisis that would justify doing all the wrong things politically all around the world.

You can't have a valid objection to people who notice what amounts to, essentially, a sociological or educational "consensus" to just characterize the valid observation as something it is not. There is not a /// need not be any//// kind of "vast rightwing conspiracy" or even "vast leftwing conspiracy" where your opponents gather in the dark of night by the millions to decide what tricks to pull politically in this world.

All you need is to get the view pushed by some bought-and-paid-for "community organizer groups". Well, maybe a few thousand like-minded believers pushing the cause. But a bunch of interested bureaucrats and do-gooder outfits can really get it cooking. Especially if someone with a huge wad of cash is backing a set of such groups. George Soros..... Bill Gates.....Oprah..... a few media owners....like this set....

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/may/31/new-york-billionaire-philanthropists


Nowadays, it's not just Hillary complaining about conspiracies to oppose her husband.... it's several prominent news organizations..... seeing Trump as some kind of threat to democracy.

yah, Trump might be an idiot. Certainly he is not on the CFR "good list". And he might be making deals with all kinds of governments around the world. But he has no organization like the progressives have had for over a hundred and fifty years with a distinct world view to push. He's just himself, being himself. And a lot of people are looking for something besides what we have had.....

what he has done, or tried to do, is more in the line of sticking up for what many Americans want, which is very different from a lot of politicians of the "Establishment" sort. I think he came up with his ideas by seeing a trend and deciding to ride it....a fairly significant number of people who want things to be done differently. Somehow.... Anyhow.

But so far I haven't seen how Trumpism is going to last longer than Trump.

 

[babe]

Trump might not be a climate expert. His 'base" probably isn't an elite set of enlightened believers or disbelievers in climate science. I think he sees a lot of people who don't want climate change issues to be used politically to change our political and economic world towards socialist ideals and increased government perogatives which are seen to be upsetting or threatening to our liberties.... Trump sees enogh people dissatisfied with this political hijacking of science, and our government, to think it is something good for him to use politcally......

I don't think Trump believes or disbelieves...... I think he sees it as a wrong political cause that people really don't want.

I think climate change is likely real..... maybe not just due to CO2.

Maybe because of natural climate cycles including, importantly, a cycle of geophysical nuclear trends within the Earth itself.

An increase in heat flux capable of raising ocean temps a few degrees, especially at depth, is capable of much more impact than atmospheric CO2 increases due to human use of fossil fuels....

So why is it important for crusaders for political change, to believe we must all accept global warming, and accept the proposed political change that is being pushed as justified by climate change?

Looks like property/wealth redistribution, socialism. You can justify anything you want with any sort of "problem" that needs to be fixed, if only you can sell the program politically. Guvmint can fix what needs fixin'.....

nah. I think guvmint never fixes anything. Just creates dependency and eliminates people's choices.....

I think it is really, really stupid to make climate change about a politcal cause, while not caring to get the whole story, the whole facts.... and actually do something to cope with what is happening.

Wrong-headed is hardly any kind of beneficial or enlightened way to deal with real problems.....

 

[One Brow]

If only I had a private (co2 spewing) jet to fly to one of these climate change summits, making that 115 jets total.. maybe I would be more informed.

If only you had access to Google, and the capability to type in the criteria for a search.

 

[Jonah]

that window you're looking at........ is not a window...... but a mirror. That's all you see.

I know I don't know much about you, except a few comments .... very few in here.... such as the above offerings..... gleeful little snide insults are not really proof of your intelligence, just proof of your belief in yourself, which you are welcome to indulge in.

But don't think for a second I won't fire back.

Out of nowhere you call me a hack for an agenda I’ve never advocated here or anywhere else and I’m the one that’s insulting? Maybe we could limit our future interaction to when there’s something substantive that can be directly referenced? That should make it really easy to avoid each other and any repetition of this nonsense.