How white liberals view black voters

[Archie Moses]

I'm struggling a bit to see the relevance of needing an ID to travel abroad and how it pertains to voting rights.

There are certainly good reasons why IDs are necessary in certain circumstances. When it comes to our most important right, that of self governance, it's a solution in search of a problem.

Go back and read the question I responded to.

It was about obtaining an ID and not voting.

 

[Archie Moses]

Why didn't you have an ID?

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For my Chilean ID card and I think (it's been a long time) to do something with my passport and or to renew my traveling visa.

This is my only experience living out of the country so it could be different in other places, I just don't imagine it is.

I do understand it's harder for some people to get ID, but I do think it's necessary and 100% fair to ask of someone who's going to vote.

 

[Archie Moses]

You never jaywalked?
What about all the other stupid laws that exist? Ones like it being against the law to have pre marital sex and silly stuff like that?

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Haha. I've broken my fair share of laws.

I think he asked me why I did it and I couldn't use because I had to as an answer. I got my ID because I had to, it was required and I didn't want to get kicked out of the country. Pretty simple.

That said, yeah, I do try and respect the laws of the land. If I break a law and get caught, I have myself to blame.

 

[Archie Moses]

Outside of the occasional beer after work with my buddies, I can go months without using it.

In other words, you can't go months without using it.

Why are you so against IDs?

 

[Harambe]

In other words, you can't go months without using it.

Why are you so against IDs?

Riiiiiiiight

 

[Stoked]

Riiiiiiiight

Congrats on not needing prescriptions, smoking, changing jobs, entering casinos, renting a car, flying, renting a hotel room, needing state assistance...

Basically, everyone should probably have an ID to begin with. Outside of the voting issue entirely.

I’d like to see more connection between tribal IDs and state IDs.

 

[Archie Moses]

Riiiiiiiight

You said so yourself and tried to play it off as if you don't use your ID. lol


You do.

 

[Archie Moses]

Congrats on not needing prescriptions, smoking, changing jobs, entering casinos, renting a car, flying, renting a hotel room, needing state assistance...

Basically, everyone should probably have an ID to begin with. Outside of the voting issue entirely.

I’d like to see more connection between tribal IDs and state IDs.

Any responsible adult should have and carry an ID at all possible times. To me, this is common sense and easy to understand as to why.

Some people may not use their ID as much as others, but it is still just as important to them.

I guess I'm not following the reasons as to why they're not needed or too hard to obtain.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

Are you charged to speak? Have a gun? Not to house soldiers in time of war?

Voting IS a right. You are entitled it to, and accommodate everyone, or you disqualify it from being a right.

We can bicker about crocodile tears forever, but that's not going to get either of us any further. Is it, or isn't voting a right?

Voting is a right. You need to have an ID. Don't eliminate the IDs. Eliminate the costs to obtaining them for people who can't afford to pay.

 

[Zombie]

When understanding a different view, you must first have put yourself in their shoes. The article does a pretty **** job of engineering itself for people that don't want to hear people complain; it presents a well bitched about problem before it presents a route to the solution. It also tells me you didn't really read it, you just grabbed the first bit you could.

Allow me to point out what you missed:

In Texas, for example, the cost of traveling to the nearest Department of Public Safety office, Texas’ version of the DMV, can be burdensome: Of the 254 counties in Texas, 78 do not have a permanent DPS office. In some communities along the Mexican border, the nearest DPS office is between 100 and 125 miles away. And in rural communities in other states, the DMV offices are few and far between.

• Can you imagine having to travel 50-62.5 miles to get to a DPS for a pircture ID? Without a vehicle of your own?

Oftentimes, people don’t even have the money to pay for the underlying documentation needed to get a photo ID card. Getting a photo ID invariably requires proof of identification; usually, that means you need your birth certificate. But what if you don’t have your birth certificate? Then you have to contact whatever government office is in charge of that sort of thing to get a copy of it. And that can be a real pain in the *** for a lot of reasons.

• I ordered a copy of my birth certificate back in '09. I had to submit the request in the form of application, and identification. If no state identification was had, my parent had to provide their identification. So I submitted my mother's birth certificate. Imagine the pickle I'd be in had my mother not had hers.
• What happens if my birth certificate had a mistake on it? I'll tell you this, when I had to correct my social security card from Daniel to David, I also needed my mom's birth certificate.

What if a birth certificate never existed?

• No, that doesn't mean you're an illegal alien. A lot of rural folks were born on farms, or to midwives in homes.

And did you know that in 2010, the birth certificates of all American citizens born in Puerto Rico expired? Because they did. So if you were born in Puerto Rico and you need a birth certificate, well, good luck with that. Sure, you can pay five bucks to get a new one—and let’s not forget that for some people, like low-income folks or homeless folks, even five dollars is five dollars too much—but guess what you need in order to get a new birth certificate?

• Photo ID

One that isn't copied from the article; were you ever handed state or federally accepted photo identification without applying, paying a fee, or having paid a fee?

• I wasn't

So help me out mang... which one of these is not a real concern? Which one of these is only hypothetical, and could never actually exist in the real world?

Still waiting on a refutation of this post.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

Still waiting on a refutation of this post.

You think there is any point in solving made up problems? Show me actual American citizens who wants ID and cannot get it and then there will be something to discuss.

 

[silesian]

A Republican congressman on Tuesday night acknowledged that the new law requiring a photo ID to vote in Wisconsin could help Republican candidates at the polls in the general election.

"I think Hillary Clinton is about the weakest candidate the Democrats have ever put up. And now we have photo ID, and I think photo ID is going to make a little bit of a difference as well," Rep. Glenn Grothman (R-WI), a supporter of Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX), told Milwaukee television station TMJ4 when asked how either Cruz or Donald Trump could win in November.

 

[silesian]

Honest republicans freely admit that these rules are to suppress democrat votes. I know lots of them, they just don’t say it in public or they get ostracized.

The whole “we are trying to stop fraud” is a lie.

I want fiscal conservatives to win but don’t think cheating is neither necessary nor ethical. Make it easy for every citizen to vote and win on the merits of the argument. Most people actually want small government.

 

[silesian]

You see this unhinged tirade as evidence that people who want IDs can't get them? It's all hypothetical. No proof at all that the problem you are claiming actually exists. It seems more than reasonable to me that people should be required to present an ID to vote, and also that they should have to present an ID to buy a gun, get on a plane, etc.

Kinda missing the point. The question is why should getting proof that you are who you are and legit difficult? Making it easy but effective seems to be the ethical answer. There are republicans who set out to make this process cumbersome so that fewer people vote.

 

[Gameface]

Honest republicans freely admit that these rules are to suppress democrat votes. I know lots of them, they just don’t say it in public or they get ostracized.

The whole “we are trying to stop fraud” is a lie.

I want fiscal conservatives to win but don’t think cheating is neither necessary nor ethical. Make it easy for every citizen to vote and win on the merits of the argument. Most people actually want small government.

But that's because they firmly believe that Democrats engage in organized voter fraud...

 

[silesian]

But that's because they firmly believe that Democrats engage in organized voter fraud...

No, it is not. That is absolutely untrue. I talk to these people. Some of these people are actually on record saying that this is not true. They know that voter fraud is just a narrative they tell to their gullible base that gives them political cover for stopping legit voters from voting. No serious political insider believes in massive voter fraud. Some in the masses are dumb enough to believe their lie.

This is one of the reasons why I am no longer a Republican. It is shameful.

 

[Archie Moses]

Honest republicans freely admit that these rules are to suppress democrat votes. I know lots of them, they just don’t say it in public or they get ostracized.

I've never met one person who has said this nor can think of any that would. I highly doubt you "know lots of them."

 

[Archie Moses]

But that's because they firmly believe that Democrats engage in organized voter fraud...

Both parties, especially when they lose, believe in voter fraud or has something to bitch about that they perceive isn't fair.

 

[Archie Moses]

Kinda missing the point. The question is why should getting proof that you are who you are and legit difficult? Making it easy but effective seems to be the ethical answer. There are republicans who set out to make this process cumbersome so that fewer people vote.

I'm all for making a system that's less difficult to obtain an ID.

 

[silesian]

I'm all for making a system that's less difficult to obtain an ID.

me too. And I'm also in sensible checks to minimize fraud.