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My hot take on what I'd do in the off-season.

The Conley haters are ****ing morons lmao


I mean, there are levels to this, no?

I dont hate the guy for hate sake. I def dont like his fit with this team in a backcourt with Donovan who is also small. I feel confident our team is better when Donovan has the ball and he's at PG.

So all those factors, on top of paying him a metric **** ton of money, doesnt make me "hate" him.......I just dont like his fit on the team at all and think those resources should be allocated at other positions.
 
Here's a post for some reality. If the Jazz don't move Conley, this is what your roster looks like in 2021. There's 0 flexibility because the Jazz will be way over the salary cap and stuck with poor roster. The salary cap is expected to be $115mm. The Jazz will be paying luxury tax with this roster. It's bad.
 

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Here's a question. Some peolpe here describe the Conley trade as the worst trade of the decade in the NBA(and Im not that far from agreeing with it)... DL got the time and chance to build up that team and had a several playoff runs with a couple different iterations of that team, but he never managed to build good enough roster to be true contender. So the question here is ... if we are going to go into a rebuild, do we want DL leading that rebuild or do we want someone else? I don't think this is an easy question to answer. I don't think DL has done a bad job with this team(and there are plenty worse GMs in the league), but when the time came for him to put the finishing touches on this roster he miserably failed. Conley has been atrocious trade, Ed Davis, Jeff Green and Mudiay were zeros for this team when playoff time came...
And Bojan. For all of his good, he is a 31-year old that got signed for four years at $18 million a season and he is bad at basically everything besides scoring.

It was a contextually good signing: you’re buying four years of Bojan for two years of good Bojan in a meaningful two-year win-now mode prior to Gobert, Mitchell, and Conley‘s, contract expirations. We needed a versatile and potent scorer at the forward positions. Only problem is Conley brought redundant positives (good scorer) and negatives (bad defender), which means the positives run into diminishing returns and the negatives get multiplied.

We didn’t need Conley is the long and short of it, and with both it is more of a problem to manage on and off the court than it is help.

I just want everyone to marinate on the fact that the Jazz didn’t appear to terribly miss either during these playoffs (beyond having the depth). I think they could’ve lost even worse if they had both for the entire series. Until game 7, the issue was we were a **** defensive team and a historically great offensive team. There is no way having both would’ve helped either.
 
Here's a post for some reality. If the Jazz don't move Conley, this is what your roster looks like in 2021. There's 0 flexibility because the Jazz will be way over the salary cap and stuck with poor roster. The salary cap is expected to be $115mm. The Jazz will be paying luxury tax with this roster. It's bad.
The cap is expected to be close to what it was this year... the 115M is pre-Covid guesstimations.

So yeah... likely choosing between the MLE and Jordan Clarkson... unless you can move Ed and Tony.
 
And Bojan. For all of his good, he is a 31-year old that got signed for four years at $18 million a season and he is bad at basically everything besides scoring.

It was a contextually good signing: you’re buying four years of Bojan for two years of good Bojan in a meaningful two-year win-now mode prior to Gobert, Mitchell, and Conley‘s, contract expirations. We needed a versatile and potent scorer at the forward positions. Only problem is Conley brought redundant positives (good scorer) and negatives (bad defender), which means the positives run into diminishing returns and the negatives get multiplied.

We didn’t need Conley is the long and short of it, and with both it is more of a problem to manage on and off the court than it is help.

I just want everyone to marinate on the fact that the Jazz didn’t appear to terribly miss either during these playoffs (beyond having the depth). I think they could’ve lost even worse if they had both for the entire series. Until game 7, the issue was we were a **** defensive team and a historically great offensive team. There is no way having both would’ve helped either.

I agree with a lot of this... I do think Bojan ages well so I'm not really concerned with his deal.

When Conley is killing it he takes some pressure off of DM. He mostly struggled this year for whatever reason. The issue is it rarely feels fluid... just feels kind of like my turn, your turn.
 
And Bojan. For all of his good, he is a 31-year old that got signed for four years at $18 million a season and he is bad at basically everything besides scoring.

It was a contextually good signing: you’re buying four years of Bojan for two years of good Bojan in a meaningful two-year win-now mode prior to Gobert, Mitchell, and Conley‘s, contract expirations. We needed a versatile and potent scorer at the forward positions. Only problem is Conley brought redundant positives (good scorer) and negatives (bad defender), which means the positives run into diminishing returns and the negatives get multiplied.

We didn’t need Conley is the long and short of it, and with both it is more of a problem to manage on and off the court than it is help.

I just want everyone to marinate on the fact that the Jazz didn’t appear to terribly miss either during these playoffs (beyond having the depth). I think they could’ve lost even worse if they had both for the entire series. Until game 7, the issue was we were a **** defensive team and a historically great offensive team. There is no way having both would’ve helped either.

bojan being out hurt a ton. If he’s healthy we’d have won or had a much better chance. It’s just that he and Conley are redundant.
 
The cap is expected to be close to what it was this year... the 115M is pre-Covid guesstimations.

So yeah... likely choosing between the MLE and Jordan Clarkson... unless you can move Ed and Tony.
No problem. We can include TB and Davis in the deal with Chicago.
 
Clarkson at 15M would be too much and some of those numbers look a bit off (I'm pretty sure Joe is a couple million below that), but the point is there, Conley moving now as an expiring is our last chance to do much for awhile.
 
I think it’s going to be another interesting “summer.” All you folks talking about trading Gobert are nuts. You aren’t going to move him for another DPOY - so there’s no point.

Also had our playoff matchup been with:

The Lakers
The Clippers
The Mavs
The Blazers
OKC

Rudy’s presence would have been the difference. As it was there are only 1-3 players in the NBA that can make Jokic defer to Jamal Murray to such an extreme degree that Murray averages 15 points over what he did during the regular season. If you look a Jokics stats over the first four years and reference comparable players, the list looks like: Dave Cowens, Dwight Howard, Hakeem Olajuwon and Yao Ming. The fact that Jokic was downgraded to 2nd option is pretty telling.
 
Clarkson at 15M would be too much and some of those numbers look a bit off (I'm pretty sure Joe is a couple million below that), but the point is there, Conley moving now as an expiring is our last chance to do much for awhile.

Agreed. But who are the buyers?

I only see: Kevin Love, Blake Griffin (they’d want somethin extras) and Knicks pieces as POSSIBLE destinations.
 
Agreed. But who are the buyers?

I only see: Kevin Love, Blake Griffin (they’d want somethin extras) and Knicks pieces as POSSIBLE destinations.
I have to think Tobias Harris or Al Horford would be available in a deal. Philly is in a world of hurt with those contracts. I think Otto Porter is realistic too. He's been a bad fit in Chicago. Porter's deal expires but the Jazz would then get his bird's rights to be able to re-sign him even though they're over the cap.
 
Agreed. But who are the buyers?

I only see: Kevin Love, Blake Griffin (they’d want somethin extras) and Knicks pieces as POSSIBLE destinations.

Love, Griffin, Porter, Harris are deals that make some sense to me. Varying a bit on who needs to add value, but hopefully not a ton in either direction. Horford doesn't seem like a real option to me.
 
I just think they botched the general theory on how you build a title contender around DM and Rudy. They have some good pieces but the Conley deal sucked up too many draft and financial resources and wasn't the right fit. We can make additions around the fringes and take a step forward but it will be small and will get us to the second round... maybe.
 
People are being too soft on DL, Snyder, and the current roster composition.
The Jazz just blew a 3-1 lead... let me repeat that they just blew a 3-1 lead. That's unacceptable and embarrassing on all accounts. Any equivalent failure / choke job in normal workplace settings would cause heads to be rolled. But for the Jazz? Par as course, move along. There needs to be uproar form local fans, otherwise the millers won't give a **** because fans will continue to support this mediocre vision.
 
I just think they botched the general theory on how you build a title contender around DM and Rudy. They have some good pieces but the Conley deal sucked up too many draft and financial resources and wasn't the right fit. We can make additions around the fringes and take a step forward but it will be small and will get us to the second round... maybe.
Yup... they should have gone all in on length/athleticism.
 
I agree with a lot of this... I do think Bojan ages well so I'm not really concerned with his deal.

When Conley is killing it he takes some pressure off of DM. He mostly struggled this year for whatever reason. The issue is it rarely feels fluid... just feels kind of like my turn, your turn.

Mike is a really good player but if I was to describe why he is not a good fit I would say that he doesn't compliment this team and definitely doesn't make the players around him play better. Even when he has a good night it feels like what he scores is at expense of someone else who could contribute and not on top of what others are doing.
 
Here's a post for some reality. If the Jazz don't move Conley, this is what your roster looks like in 2021. There's 0 flexibility because the Jazz will be way over the salary cap and stuck with poor roster. The salary cap is expected to be $115mm. The Jazz will be paying luxury tax with this roster. It's bad.
Paying luxury tax+not making the playoff.
 
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