Privileged by Kyle Korver

One Brow

Well-Known Member
Should be easy to publish the same stuff in US in English for a multimillionaire basketball player as a charity project unless they have family to feed :).
How many millions of workbooks should we expect this basketball player to buy each year, over how many years?

Of course, in theory that kind of material should be created by some government entity which is responsible for education.
In general, my point is that if kids were able to study more or less successfully in post-war Soviet Union, Germany, Japan and eastern bloc countries then i seriously doubt that life for blacks is currently worse.
Since you have no basis of comparison, feel free to doubt.
 

LoPo

Well-Known Member
I agree there.



Well, going by here, 5, 12, 13, 17, 19, and 23 qualify.
Maybe if he would have taken the money wasted on #22 and used it to improve inner city issues affecting minorities, maybe he would have done something to directly improve the lives of minorities.

No President fails at everything or succeeds at everything. I was just hoping that President Obama would do more to empower minorities, lessen the race issues in this country, etc. And I'm not trying to open the door for a Trump bashing session. I'm just talking about Obama and his impact.
 

Hotdog

Well-Known Member
So are we giving credit to past or present President for the current economy? You show a graph of the economy rising right when Obama was elected. Which if we go by the events that happened prior, then that would mean Bush should get the credit.

In reality, neither deserve credit. Bush tanked it. He did a stimulus, Obama got elected and he did a stimulus. Both were one right after each other. So Im not sure how you can give Obama credit after it was two straight stimulus packages that bailed out the economy.

In Trump's case he didnt need a stimulus. He just lowered taxes, and the economy now is doing better than it was under Obama or Bush. The effects of what Trump did was immediately felt. Obama's and Bush's solution was slow and barely did anything.

Shortly after Trump was elected and taxes were lowered the economy has been on fire like I have never seen before. There is more work out there than there is people willing to work. Businesses are fighting over employees. Wages making jumps every few months. All through Obama years the wages were stagnant. Those are facts.
 

One Brow

Well-Known Member
Maybe if he would have taken the money wasted on #22 and used it to improve inner city issues affecting minorities, maybe he would have done something to directly improve the lives of minorities.
That would be theft. Even though we froze it, it was Iran's money.
 

idestroyedthetoilet

Well-Known Member
If you mean that, as a percentage of the population or as a part of government policy, white nationalism has not increased this century and is far lower than even 50 years ago, I agree. However, compared to just 10-15 years ago, white nationalism has become more acceptable as a public position, due in no small part to a reaction to Obama and the current POTUS.
I think the opposite but it's a difficult discussion to have in the US without nailing down an exact definition to agree upon. Here, nationalism or culturalism is rooted in white nationalism from colonization. Still, I'm hesitant to lump those wanting to preserve their culture, national identity/ideology in with white nationalists seeking to preserve a white power structure. Even if I did, I see that mentality in decline, dying off.
 

Hotdog

Well-Known Member
That was a graph of the stock market. Try again.
Is the stock market not part of the economy? Does it not, for the most part, correlate to how to the economy is doing?

For example: the housing market crashed, people lost their jobs, AND the stock market crashed?
 

silesian

Well-Known Member
Yep. All facts matter. https://www.weeklystandard.com/jeffrey-h-anderson/obamas-historically-bad-economy

I own that I misspoke about the 2% thing. Did things start improving at the very end of 8 years? Sure they did. About freaking time.

My whole point, especially since this thread is about race, was that Obama did less than I expected to improve the lives of the impoverished especially minorities. Can anybody point to any legislation he pushed or signed off on which was designated to improve the lives of those in poverty hell? Like I said before, Trump is an *** but his tax cuts have seemed to have a positive impact for minorities. Some will say that more women, African Americans, etc. need to be in power to work on behalf of the groups they represent. That logic isn't proven. As long as our policies are fair and designed to improve all lives, it shouldn't matter the race, gender, orientation, whatever of the person is who implements the policies. That's why I'm sick and tired of labels. We spend way too much time as a society labeling people.
It’s not just that you got the basic facts wrong. By wildly exaggerating the stock market trump boost (pretty easy to see that it just continued increasing at about the same rate) and the gdp numbers (are 2017 and 2018 statistically different from the previous 8 years?), your credibility is shot. Trumps economic record is good, so why all the MAGA hyperbole?
 

One Brow

Well-Known Member
I think the opposite but it's a difficult discussion to have in the US without nailing down an exact definition to agree upon. Here, nationalism or culturalism is rooted in white nationalism from colonization. Still, I'm hesitant to lump those wanting to preserve their culture, national identity/ideology in with white nationalists seeking to preserve a white power structure. Even if I did, I see that mentality in decline, dying off.
Generally, I agree with you, except that I'm not sure how you can separate out "preserve their culture, national identity/ideology" from "preserve a white power structure". I mean, it's not like St. Patrick's Day (as an example) or ballroom dancing is under attack. I'm not sure what white people feel they need to preserve that is not a part of the white power structure.
 

JazzyFresh

Well-Known Member
Generally, I agree with you, except that I'm not sure how you can separate out "preserve their culture, national identity/ideology" from "preserve a white power structure". I mean, it's not like St. Patrick's Day (as an example) or ballroom dancing is under attack. I'm not sure what white people feel they need to preserve that is not a part of the white power structure.
What about the big percentage of whites who didn't own slaves or hate blacks? There were plenty that fought against it making the US a staple in abolishing slavery.
 

idestroyedthetoilet

Well-Known Member
Generally, I agree with you, except that I'm not sure how you can separate out "preserve their culture, national identity/ideology" from "preserve a white power structure". I mean, it's not like St. Patrick's Day (as an example) or ballroom dancing is under attack. I'm not sure what white people feel they need to preserve that is not a part of the white power structure.
It's easy to separate non-racist based fears from racist based fears. Just because you dont think something like the notion of a war on Christmas is rational does not mean these fears and a want for preservation are based out of racism. I don't think people are racist because they want to burn wood in their fireplaces because that's American and telling them not to is an attack on their American way if life.

If we can agree on that and on to white nationalists, what do you see as a rise in white nationalism? I haven't read anything convincing, only a bunch of hyperbole and convenient correlations from both poles. Things like increased in hate crimes in one year don't convince me.
 

LoPo

Well-Known Member
It’s not just that you got the basic facts wrong. By wildly exaggerating the stock market trump boost (pretty easy to see that it just continued increasing at about the same rate) and the gdp numbers (are 2017 and 2018 statistically different from the previous 8 years?), your credibility is shot. Trumps economic record is good, so why all the MAGA hyperbole?
Watch it now. Don't lump me in with anything. You simply can't argue the stock market hasn't been amazing. He took an okay market and it's been amazing since his inauguration: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/t...election-is-its-biggest-since-1945-2017-11-08. Obama took a bad market and made it average and Trump took an average market and made it record breaking.

I just feel that Obama didn't seem to have a positive impact on either race relations or any kind of improvement for minorities. I think it's fantastic that he was elected President. I just find it a shame he didn't do more or more importantly, the US isn't in a better situation after him than it was before him.
 

idestroyedthetoilet

Well-Known Member
And I wanted to mention that your jobs numbers example was a very poor rebuttal. I'm not getting into the mud on that stupid debate of crediting a president with success or failure in an economy - hell, I'd be here all day correcting NPC's stupidity like claiming deficit spending tax cuts aren't stimulus, or insinuating that wasn't one of Obama's major stimulus legs - just a friendly heads up ("bad" is unitless, expectations, priced in or not, softening or firming, parsing by sector, unusual events, revisions, etc).

Also, @LoPo you're stating things very well here IMO but you're always going to be off the mark on Obama until you understand (or account for in your response) the difference between an inflationary recession and a deflationary process. Obama had to deal with a D-process and deserves an A+ IMO. Trump doesnt deserve credit for jack squat.
 

LoPo

Well-Known Member
Also, @LoPo Trump doesnt deserve credit for jack squat.
This is a great example of why our nation is going down the *****er. We do our best to prop up the people we like, and we do our best to tear down the people we don't like. To say Trump has done nothing positive is just idiotic. Just like it's idiotic for somebody to say Obama didn't do anything either. The problem is, our media and social media have made it completely okay to hate a side even when they are right.
 

One Brow

Well-Known Member
What about the big percentage of whites who didn't own slaves or hate blacks? There were plenty that fought against it making the US a staple in abolishing slavery.
Yes, that is true. How does that help you separate out "preserve their culture, national identity/ideology" from "preserve a white power structure"?
 

One Brow

Well-Known Member
It's easy to separate non-racist based fears from racist based fears. Just because you dont think something like the notion of a war on Christmas is rational does not mean these fears and a want for preservation are based out of racism.
Would we agree that they are based on religious prejudice, instead?

I don't think people are racist because they want to burn wood in their fireplaces because that's American and telling them not to is an attack on their American way if life.
Who says don't burn wood? If anything, that would be carbon-neutral.

If we can agree on that and on to white nationalists, what do you see as a rise in white nationalism?
This is what I said:
If you mean that, as a percentage of the population or as a part of government policy, white nationalism has not increased this century and is far lower than even 50 years ago, I agree. However, compared to just 10-15 years ago, white nationalism has become more acceptable as a public position, due in no small part to a reaction to Obama and the current POTUS.
So, by "rise", do you mean increase in numbers (I agree there has been none) or increase in openness of public positioning (whichI think there has been)?
 

Hotdog

Well-Known Member
What about the big percentage of whites who didn't own slaves or hate blacks? There were plenty that fought against it making the US a staple in abolishing slavery.
Dont expect the left to acknowledge this. They only want to focus on the negative, and only the negative from white Christian Americans. They conveniently leave out all the positive things that have come from the West, Christians, Americans, white people, Men.

America participated in slavery, but America also defeated it. America has done more good for the world than all the countries combined. Couple that with the fact that more atrocities have been committed on humanity in every other single country.

Yet, here we are discussing just how bad America and white people are.
 

idestroyedthetoilet

Well-Known Member
This is a great example of why our nation is going down the *****er. We do our best to prop up the people we like, and we do our best to tear down the people we don't like. To say Trump has done nothing positive is just idiotic. Just like it's idiotic for somebody to say Obama didn't do anything either. The problem is, our media and social media have made it completely okay to hate a side even when they are right.
Back off dude. My economic scorecard has nothing to do with my personal opinion of the guy, and putting words in my mouth and incorrectly using a generalization I said as an example doesn't strengthen the good point you were making.

Trump doesn't deserve praise for pumping deficit spending into an expanding economy. Anyone can do that in a non-deflationary and get a short term GDP bump.
 
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