Privileged by Kyle Korver

[One Brow]

I'm confused by what you are saying what types of lifestyles are country and metal promoting? They are hardly talking about making money selling drugs, disrespecting women, shooting others, or trying to be the toughest.

Even in my limited experience, I have heard country songs talk about those things. I'l bet if you think about it, you can remember that have too.

If you are living in a rougher neighborhood this celebrates poor behavior. More likely a chance to fall victim of the cycle of poor choices.

Again, it seems to me you confuse cause and effect here.

Look at our problem attracting free agents. Why does Utah have a problem? Because we are boring? Boring without the club scenes that have place multimillionaires like Adam Jones out of the NFL. Or boring because you don't need a gun (even though now the Right is worshipping guns and fear you might) that have ended careers of the likes of many multimillionaires athletes.

Do we have more of a problem than Milwaukee, San Antonio, or Sacremento?

 

[Thee Jazz Fan]

I have privileges because I'm white. Now what? What did that just solve?

Nothing. That’s the point, Korver tells the story of his close friendship with Thabo while both were on the Hawks. Like you, Korver is genuinely a good dude, not racist or anything like that. Thabo, to him wasn’t just another teammate, they were close friends. The moment he heard what happened the first thought was what did he do. Well he didn’t do anything. Korver judged his good friend without knowing the full details and that made him open his eyes. Had Thabo looked more like Korver, that situation may have been different. This is why he said he needed to say to himself to shut up and listen.

I remember when Kaep sat for the anthem, when I saw highlights of that preseason game that showed him sitting, my first reaction was that Kaepernick was being selfish because there was a chance he might lose his starting job. But then I heard his explanation for his cause and I was all of a sudden finding myself respecting him more and thinking to myself, I’m down with that. However a lot of people continued to look at him as just another defiant blak man and for the most part didn’t let go of their hate.

Korver s message is we need to let go of our pride and realize what’s going on racism didn’t go away after everything that happened after slavery and it’s aftermath. It’s only evolved. We as a people need to change our thinking, then maybe we can do away with white privilege.

Meaning if we are placed in a situation to speak up we should.
We need to shut up and listen.

I don’t know if this makes sense to anyone, I’m not the best at articulating my thoughts.

 

[Mission Accomplished]

Here is a thought I just had ...the most important piece of Korvers writting is that because of his "white privilege" he has the ability to sink back into the "crowd". Why that is the most important part is because this is the oppressor mentality. Thinking about this from that prospective we do this all the time. This is nationalism, this is sexism, and the list goes on. "White Privilege" is equal to years of not speaking up on behalf of the oppressed. It is happening right now with "illegal immigrants" = oppressed people, Muslim = oppressed people, LQBTQlmnop = oppressed people, women = oppressed people, the list goes on. Some of the oppression has gone on for years. Some is self inflicted. But, what Korver said should strick a nerve because as long as we are vocal and opposing this oppression we are using our "privilege" to try to change these problems. We become part of the machine or problem when we do nothing and sink back into the crowd.

In his article he also is enabling poor behavior by questioning himself for questioning Thabo. Because Thabo multimillionaire chose to go out put himself in that situation. He could have been a voice of reason or guidance to help him not make that choice. But, instead because he perceives that it could be construed as racist he fades into the crowd.

Sent from my SM-N960U using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[AlaskanAssassin]

Ummm ok?

Just wondering what you think white privilege is? Seems like an odd thing to say.

What's odd about it? I believe racist people exist within every racial group. I don't believe there are systematic established advantages that any one race has over another. The advantages that we see, that many prescribe to "White Privilege" is actually class privilege. If you were born poor, you have a high probability of being poor throughout your life. If you were born wealthy, you are likely to remain wealthy. This correlates to rates of incarceration, drug use rates, single parenthood rate, high-school drop out rate, etc. This is irrespective of race.

If white privilege exists, why are Asians the highest earning racial group in the United States? Are they immune to the negative impacts of "White Privilege"?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_groups_in_the_United_States_by_household_income

First step in solving a problem is admitting there is one.
White privilege exists. It’s real. How extensive, damaging and what not is open to discussion. It existing really isn’t.
It’s real dude, come on...

I'm not sure admitting that it exists will solve anything. My issue with Kyle's article is that it offered zero solutions.

The term "White Privilege" is tossed around so frequently that's it's turned into an auto-response in what otherwise could be meaningful discussions on race and equality. See below:

 

[Jazzta]

Wow!

Good job Korver!

Know that I support you!

Sounds like you've come around to liking Korver again

Now to watch him throw those daggers in the playoffs.

 

[Tak]

Well, since he's not claiming to be American or not American, to be white or not white, it's hard to say he's lying about a fact he's not stating.

If he has a perspective to share, I'll listen. Right now, Tak is only saying that no one should tell him he needs to listen. So, there's not much experience there to hear, either.

Edit to add: by the way, this is the poster who has said tone doesn't matter in a conversation. So, I'm sure they have no objections to my tone.

You just don't listen, do you? How can you say I'm not claiming to be American or not American, to be white or not white if I just said this:

In other hand, how in the hell I would know what it means to be white in America, least of all tell people about it, if I'm not white nor American? You assume a lot.

How much clearly do I have to state that I'm not white nor American? Does your "privilege" demands for me to produce some kind of document to prove that? Why should I have to go to a message board trying to prove my ethnicity or my nationality? Why should I have to prove my ethnicity or nationality to have an opinion about something? You sure are making this board feel very welcoming to POC and foreigners with your attitude.

I never said that no one should tell me to listen, I clearly stated that my stance is "no one should tell anyone to shut up" I'm not against listening, I'm against silencing. You are deliberately twisting my words to fit what you already made up in your mind. You just read something and you racey sense started tingling so you decided to show that "whiny white American" who's who in this board, the problem is the whiny is not white, nor American. Now, instead of graciously backpedaling on your stance, you accuse me of lying. As a non white, non American person I feel tempted to state that your attitude is very racist and xenophobic itself, but I'm sure it's just a product of you being so full of ****.

Oh, and I never said that tone doesn't matter in a conversation, i said that tone doesn't change the content of the message. Again, learn to listen, or at least learn to read.

 

[gandalfe]

 

[Archie Moses]

I just read an opinion piece on Sports Illustrated that was a response to Korver's post. Basically, it's someone saying thanks Korver, but what you did isn't enough and where have you been. To me, it's a shot at Korver and it mimics the attitude that many people have online and even on Jazzfanz.
https://www.si.com/nba/2019/04/09/k...-jazz-hawks-russell-westbrook-thabo-sefolosha

Apparently, it's in and edgy to condemn progression. Lol To me, a society that condemns progression is a society not progressing.

It's important that Korver is recognizing his privilege, but my first question to him would be, “What were you doing when all of these white and black people around you were speaking on these things before?” And my follow-up question would go something like, “What were you doing in the past when situations like Russell Westbrook's incidenthappened around you? If so many of your teammates have experienced situations similar to Westbrook’s, where was your head that you're just now recognizing that your skin allows you to be treated differently?”


I’m not trying to be rude or sound overly critical, but Kyle, as a person 14 years younger than you who has seen you interact with black people in intimate and intellectual ways the majority of white people never experience, it’s a little disheartening to see you are just now deciding to acknowledge the racist history of the United States.

Basically, you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't.

The problem is too many people want people to understand either themselves or people they identify with. If we spent more time listening, understanding why people have their perspectives rather than our own the world would be a better place.
Some people may not experience racism and, obviously, these same people do not understand it to the degree that people who see or face it continuously do. Yet, there's this mob mentality of condemning them right of the bat.
If you treat someone's conversation right of the bat as illegitimate and talk down to them, chances are you're not doing anything to help them see things differently. To them, they have their perspectives and experiences and opinions. If only we could spend a week, month, year in the shoes of someone from a different place, a different color, a different religion, etc it would help us find common ground. Finding common ground rather than telling people your views are legitimate and theirs are wrong, invalid, illegitimate, etc will help so much more with the goal of getting people to change, to understand, and to listen.

Lastly, I'm surprised that so many are defending Russell Westbrook. Let me be very clear here and say that I think telling a professional athlete to get down on their knees is not something that should be allowed and crosses the line. That said, Russell's reaction of threatening violence and violence to women that he's going to **** them up is pretty bad. Especially since Westbrook has a history of yelling at women/wives of fans.

Basically, my thoughts on the situation is the fan was out of line, Westbrook was out of line and by blaming the fan's comments on being racist, it makes it easier for people to forget what Westbrook said. I do not believe the line SH said is racist, it's homophobic and fan flexing. Yeah, I know his Twitter was full of racist things and that's the type of dude that does more harm than good. I just feel that blaming racism on things that aren't racist water downs racism and gets more people tone deaf to the cause. The media does this on a daily basis and it's creating a culture of division.

 

[Archie Moses]

What's odd about it? I believe racist people exist within every racial group. I don't believe there are systematic established advantages that any one race has over another. The advantages that we see, that many prescribe to "White Privilege" is actually class privilege. If you were born poor, you have a high probability of being poor throughout your life. If you were born wealthy, you are likely to remain wealthy. This correlates to rates of incarceration, drug use rates, single parenthood rate, high-school drop out rate, etc. This is irrespective of race.

If white privilege exists, why are Asians the highest earning racial group in the United States? Are they immune to the negative impacts of "White Privilege"?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_groups_in_the_United_States_by_household_income



I'm not sure admitting that it exists will solve anything. My issue with Kyle's article is that it offered zero solutions.

The term "White Privilege" is tossed around so frequently that's it's turned into an auto-response in what otherwise could be meaningful discussions on race and equality. See below:

One thing that helped me understand systemic racism is learning more about different class privileges.

There's a reason why there is a discrepancy in the education, housing, economic earnings, etc. The system has and does influence different class privileges.

 

[idestroyedthetoilet]

The more we rehash this topic, the more bent out of shape we all get. The emotional bank account is in full effect here. Very few of the posters here feel like another poster truly loves them (cares about them on an individual level). The trouble with this is in order to have a chance to reach or change somebody you must make emotional deposits, before they will be willing to consider a withdrawal (changing their mindset, life, actions etc.)

In other words if you are not close friends or have a mutual reverence with a poster here, it may actually have the opposite outcome of what you are trying to achieve because we are missing the key ingredient of love in many instances. Another great quote that I feel is relevant here is: "Nobody wins an argument."

This asking for change without first extending love is doing a lot of damage and building tribalism and encouraging segregation. Everybody feels like nobody listens and understands, because we often omit love in our discussions and arguments.

I doubt I have the reputation to make this point, I hope you all will tolerate me posting what's on my mind.

From what I've read, for the most part there are people who want to listen and learn and discuss, and there is a small group not in a position of authority or experience who want to tell the first group what they have on mind is wrong and to shut up.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

To be clear, I welcome your conversation any time you feel you can manage joining in. While we often disagree, you give every impression of wanting to be a better person (just as I want to be a better person).

I'm only trying to recognize that you find me off-putting and don't want to engage me, so I mentioned an opportunity for that to happen. It's up to you to take it or not.

I thought that encouraging you to speak in location you found safe was the opposite of telling you to shut up.

Do you believe that every opinion that anyone has is worthy of a long, lengthy debate and to be treated as a legitimate opinion to have? Or, are you objecting to style?

I feel telling me I can go talk in the "safe conservative" thread is saying two things, go away, and it is definitely not a respectful place here to talk about this.

I do not feel every opinion is worthy of a long, lengthy debate. I do think the dismissal of someone or their opinion because we don't see it as valid defeats the whole effort of trying to come together.
There are extreme examples that I'm sure we can both agree on, but I think the line of "valid" is in a different spot for you and for me.
I wouldn't call it "style". I feel that in most cases with you there is back and forth but there is nothing gained. Either you or both are so intent on getting points across that the actual listening to understand is very straw man, or flimsy just to say it was done.

How does going to a group think thread lead to change? How about we find a way to have truly respectful and sincere conversations despite differing opinions?

 

[Thee Jazz Fan]

I just read an opinion piece on Sports Illustrated that was a response to Korver's post. Basically, it's someone saying thanks Korver, but what you did isn't enough and where have you been. To me, it's a shot at Korver and it mimics the attitude that many people have online and even on Jazzfanz.
https://www.si.com/nba/2019/04/09/k...-jazz-hawks-russell-westbrook-thabo-sefolosha

Apparently, it's in and edgy to condemn progression. Lol To me, a society that condemns progression is a society not progressing.

Basically, you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't.

The problem is too many people want people to understand either themselves or people they identify with. If we spent more time listening, understanding why people have their perspectives rather than our own the world would be a better place.
Some people may not experience racism and, obviously, these same people do not understand it to the degree that people who see or face it continuously do. Yet, there's this mob mentality of condemning them right of the bat.
If you treat someone's conversation right of the bat as illegitimate and talk down to them, chances are you're not doing anything to help them see things differently. To them, they have their perspectives and experiences and opinions. If only we could spend a week, month, year in the shoes of someone from a different place, a different color, a different religion, etc it would help us find common ground. Finding common ground rather than telling people your views are legitimate and theirs are wrong, invalid, illegitimate, etc will help so much more with the goal of getting people to change, to understand, and to listen.

Lastly, I'm surprised that so many are defending Russell Westbrook. Let me be very clear here and say that I think telling a professional athlete to get down on their knees is not something that should be allowed and crosses the line. That said, Russell's reaction of threatening violence and violence to women that he's going to **** them up is pretty bad. Especially since Westbrook has a history of yelling at women/wives of fans.

Basically, my thoughts on the situation is the fan was out of line, Westbrook was out of line and by blaming the fan's comments on being racist, it makes it easier for people to forget what Westbrook said. I do not believe the line SH said is racist, it's homophobic and fan flexing. Yeah, I know his Twitter was full of racist things and that's the type of dude that does more harm than good. I just feel that blaming racism on things that aren't racist water downs racism and gets more people tone deaf to the cause. The media does this on a daily basis and it's creating a culture of division.

That paragraph you pasted only tells me that the truth hurts. No one really wants to be told they need to change. Racism has evolved since after slavery was done away with. Before it was about open hate and violence. Now it’s all PC and the illusion of understanding and knowing your place in the world and it’s segregating the country. It hit Korver like a ton of bricks, when his first thoughts were of disappointment toward his friend than hearing the truth, it and made Korver stop and think and realize that this is still a problem in today’s society. The sad fact is that we really are letting hate happen, while under our noses, because of pride and our unwillingness to listen and change. No one wants to be told to change so we dig in and fight.