Privileged by Kyle Korver

[silesian]

Usually, you might have a point. However, the stock market spiked and has stayed high once he won the election. It happened immediately.

facts matter

 

[silesian]

People can try to give credit to Obama all they want, but regardless, he is the only 8 year President ever without at least one year of 2% growth. So he came into a wrecked economy and pretty much never fixed it.

facts matter

 

[firegirl]

Here's another example of white privilege and racism here in my own community: We were filming a commercial for a large tech company, and we cast a black girl (16) living in Daybreak. She was super cool, had a rad look and was fun to work with. After getting to know her, I found out that she goes to high school online. I asked why, and she said, "Because I got sick of the horrible racist things that people called me in the halls at school." - There. That's what we're talking about. This sweet girl was bullied at school simply because of her skin color. I was bullied at school for other things, but never for the color of my skin. This is what needs to change.

Also, this directly ties into Korver's article because there were many kids at her school that never stood up and defended her. They stayed quiet and in the background.

 

[One Brow]

Are the math or physics books and lectures fundamentally different when comparing high end and low end elementary school in US (in Estonia the books are same but we are also small country)? For example, i guess that learning the Ohm's law should be equally easy or difficult (i.e it depends whether the student wants to understand it or not) no matter whether the teacher/tutor is working in high end or low end school.

Yes, the ability to buy newer books and more immersive teaching materials can make a substantial difference in the quality of the instruction. The research we have indicates concepts like Ohm's Law are more easily understood by children whose live n less stressful environments.

Also, i have heard about people who in theory have higher education than i have (diploma wise), but do not understand the side(de)fects about the Ohm's law (was taught to me at school when i was 12 or 13 years old). For example, they might connect heat generator or some other equipment which uses above average amount of power to the outlet, where the area of the electrical wire is 1,5 mm2 or even less instead of a 2,5 mm2 and they received the best grades on the physics class in school ...

I am sure you see some connection between the topic of this thread and the notion of the difference between theoretical and practical knowledge. I don't know what that connection would be.

 

[One Brow]

Its not as simple as you are boiling it down too. Simply being black or white does equate to more less struggle.

I never said it said. You are arguing against a straw man. If you are just trolling, then that's to be expected.

Not everyone or every place in America sees black in a negative light. In fact, often times people are envious of it. They copy and mimick black people and black culture.

Until they choose to opt out.

Lmao

Oh man. This just gets weirder.

Suicide is a benefit to white privilege.

What part of the phrase "some negative aspects" confuses you?

 

[One Brow]

Nobody is saying or supporting white nationalism. People support nationalism(patriotism). Period. You just keep adding the white onto it to feed your narrative.

I am not responsible for your ignorance in the matter.

Why cant you people actually discuss things like adults and stop with putting words in people's mouths?

You mean, like claiming someone said increased suicide was a benefit?

 

[Red]

People support nationalism(patriotism).

I'm OK with patriotism, but not so much nationalism, which has spawned quite a few wars in the modern era. My apologies if this is an aside re the thread subject.

“The president is a nationalist, which is not at all the same thing as a patriot. A nationalist encourages us to be our worst, and then tells us that we are the best. A nationalist, “although endlessly brooding on power, victory, defeat, revenge,” wrote Orwell, tends to be “uninterested in what happens in the real world.” Nationalism is relativist, since the only truth is the resentment we feel when we contemplate others. As the novelist Danilo Kiš put it, nationalism “has no universal values, aesthetic or ethical.” A patriot, by contrast, wants the nation to live up to its ideals, which means asking us to be our best selves. A patriot must be concerned with the real world, which is the only place where his country can be loved and sustained. A patriot has universal values, standards by which he judges his nation, always wishing it well—and wishing that it would do better. Democracy failed in Europe in the 1920s, ’30s, and ’40s, and it is failing not only in much of Europe but in many parts of the world today. It is that history and experience that reveals to us the dark range of our possible futures. A nationalist will say that “it can’t happen here,” which is the first step toward disaster. A patriot says that it could happen here, but that we will stop it."

― Timothy Snyder, On Tyranny: Twenty Lessons from the Twentieth Century

 

[lauriandres]

Yes, the ability to buy newer books and more immersive teaching materials can make a substantial difference in the quality of the instruction. The research we have indicates concepts like Ohm's Law are more easily understood by children whose live n less stressful environments.

IMHO, basic laws in math and physics are still same. Maybe it is different in US, but here the elementary school books about math and physics that were published during the Soviet time (and in theory should be in poorer quality compared to those books that are now published in US or Estonia) have IMHO aged well. Assuming the student wants to learn; that was visible during the Brezhnev time and also now. Or are you saying that currently life in black dominated suburbs are even worse, than life was in Estonia during the Soviet regime, specially between 1940-1953 when although the living conditions were what they were the youngsters still managed to graduate elementary, secondary(high) school and even university?

 

[Hotdog]

lol @ those who think white supremacy is some extreme fringe position. It's mundane and mainstream. Neo-Nazis are the ideology's extreme fringe, much like ISIS is at Islam's extreme fringe.

As Thriller sig says, get educated.

Thats a lie and you know it.

The problem is your definition of white supremacy. You have weaponized it and think you can apply it to whatever you want.

Prove that is main stream. You cant.

As thriller has done, so have you. You got propagandized.

 

[Alfalfa]

Thats a lie and you know it.

The problem is your definition of white supremacy. You have weaponized it and think you can apply it to whatever you want.

Prove that is main stream. You cant.

As thriller has done, so have you. You got propagandized.

Nah, the problem is your ignorance of your people's history. That's all.

 

[One Brow]

It will make me sound cold-hearted, but I would consider that equality.

I appreciate your honesty. I know many conservative are worried about being shouted down, and I am glad you either don't have that worry or have chosen to disregard it.

I would hope that the parent(s) of the impoverished student took advantage of social welfare programs designed to ensure that all young people have their basic needs taken care of (Welfare, food stamps, low income housing, Head Start). I don't think these efforts qualify as equality or equity, but rather a baseline of needs that should be met for a young person. These efforts are not creating equity, based on the results. If your Dad is in jail and Mom is never home because she's busy working two jobs (or worse), it's going to be near impossible to provide a path for this student to excel academically or in life. Even if social programs were better and more effective, it would not create equity among all subsets (race, gender, ethnicity, etc.) of Americans.

I have been on some of these programs myself, and my third child is on them now. They make the difference between starvation and food scarcity, between homelessness and living in a less safe neighborhood. I agree they meet one type of baseline, but don't approach equality/equity.

If the poor child's father was raised poor and is in jail, it's likely to be for the same sort of behavior in his youth (at least, early on) that the middle-class child's father engaged in as a youth. The difference being that the poor kids face a larger police presence, don't have the police look the other way, and get far fewer second chances. However, it's a myth to say that the fathers of most poor kids are in jail. Many poor kids have present fathers who can't find meaningful work that supports their family.

If the Mom has to work two jobs, is it not in part because she feels compelled to by low wages and insufficient financial support?

Perhaps you can never create equity, but I think we can easily come closer than we have so far.

Also, does the same push for equity apply between an upper-class student and middle-class student? The upper-class student goes to a private school, better teachers, access to unlimited tutoring, internship experiences, etc. How do we even the playing field between these two students?

I had not really thought about that. Looking into a couple of studies, like this one, I think there is less of a need, at least in regards to tests like the SAT. As family wealth increases, the effect of wealth on the SAT scores diminishes.

One advantage the wealthy will always have is connections and resources. If your ancestors went to Harvard, you get the legacy admission treatment, and I don't think there is anything we can do to change that. If you can buy Harvard a new laboratory, you kid will get preferential admission treatment, and I don't think there is anything we can do to change that, either. For that matter, the middle-class family will still be able to take out second mortgages and engage in other assistance to help their kids out. I would not propose changing that, either.

I would describe this as equality. Again, to me, equity is a focus on the end result to force people or subsets of people to all have equal outcomes. The student with dyslexia is going to face challenges in life that many other will not and will likely have an impact on their quality of life (regardless of assistance provided on a test).

I'm on board with trying to remove certain disadvantages in an attempt to create equal opportunity. As mentioned, we are already attempting to do this through many social welfare programs, among other efforts. Have these efforts had a significant impact on equality of outcome? Not really. Expecting an equality of outcome based on equal starting points is the wrong approach.

I don't know anyone who thinks equality of outcomes is something to be fixed on the result end. If you believe all people are basically the same, equality of outcome would be the result of equality of circumstances and opportunity.

I disagree *strongly* that the social welfare programs have had little or no significant impact. When they are employed over an extended period of time, we do see a narrowing of the gapes between the poor and the middle class. Head Start got continues funding and expansion because it made a difference for the kids who went through it.

 

[Hotdog]

Nah, the problem is your ignorance of your people's history. That's all.

Nah,

The real problem is choose to ignore all parts of history in favor of only telling certain details to paint a certain picture. You choose to focus solely on the negative aspects of only one group of people.

Check your blind spots before you come in my lane bruh.

 

[Hotdog]

Nah, the problem is your ignorance of your people's history. That's all.

And still waiting for your proof of main stream white supremacy.

I know I will never get it though.

I just want it to be main stream that you make **** up. So Ill be covering this topic 24/7

 

[One Brow]

IMHO, basic laws in math and physics are still same. Maybe it is different in US, but here the elementary school books about math and physics that were published during the Soviet time (and in theory should be in poorer quality compared to those books that are now published in US or Estonia) have IMHO aged well. Assuming the student wants to learn; that was visible during the Brezhnev time and also now. Or are you saying that currently life in black dominated suburbs are even worse, than life was in Estonia during the Soviet regime, specially between 1940-1953 when although the living conditions were what they were the youngsters still managed to graduate elementary, secondary(high) school and even university?

I don't feel qualified to comment on Soviet-era teaching methods, nor current Estonian teaching methods, let alone compare them to the variety of teaching methods used in the US. I have no idea how they compare the teaching methods of modern-day US schools in poor or middle-class communities.

Instead, let me give you an example. At my kids schools, every year they were given work books. These are books designed to be cut up, torn apart, written on, and other-wise physically manipulated, which allow children to engage with the material physically as well as mentally. This improves student understanding and outcomes. However, work books are expensive. Not all school systems can afford to give each child two or three such books every year as a supplement to the text. Further, because you always have to buy the latest work book, you have to have the latest text to accompany it. Not all school systems can afford to replace their texts at this rate. Since the work books are used two-three times per week, they have a long-term, incremental, building effect on child learning.

I can pull out another five or six additional teaching methods that are much more accessible to middle-class children, if you like.

 

[1234567890]

My thought on all of this:



I'm so sick of this crap. It's just a political tool and so many of you are so eager to show how enlightened you are and how you care and are such a good person.
Well, I've watched this kind of crap for 50 years and I don't buy any of it.

 

[One Brow]

I'm so sick of this crap. It's just a political tool and so many of you are so eager to show how enlightened you are and how you care and are such a good person.
Well, I've watched this kind of crap for 50 years and I don't buy any of it.

Well, I'm not in politics, and I don't know anyone on this board outside of this board, so I have no reason to care whether they think I'm enlightened.

Still, it's nice for you that you can opt out. Enjoy that feeling.

 

[Alfalfa]

And still waiting for your proof of main stream white supremacy.

I know I will never get it though.

I just want it to be main stream that you make **** up. So Ill be covering this topic 24/7

Proof? lol. I might get back to this and explain it for the benefit of those with actual intellectual curiosity. And you can read it and dismiss it then.

 

[LoPo]

facts matter

View attachment 7044

Yep. All facts matter. https://www.weeklystandard.com/jeffrey-h-anderson/obamas-historically-bad-economy

I own that I misspoke about the 2% thing. Did things start improving at the very end of 8 years? Sure they did. About freaking time.

My whole point, especially since this thread is about race, was that Obama did less than I expected to improve the lives of the impoverished especially minorities. Can anybody point to any legislation he pushed or signed off on which was designated to improve the lives of those in poverty hell? Like I said before, Trump is an *** but his tax cuts have seemed to have a positive impact for minorities. Some will say that more women, African Americans, etc. need to be in power to work on behalf of the groups they represent. That logic isn't proven. As long as our policies are fair and designed to improve all lives, it shouldn't matter the race, gender, orientation, whatever of the person is who implements the policies. That's why I'm sick and tired of labels. We spend way too much time as a society labeling people.

 

[One Brow]

My whole point, especially since this thread is about race, was that Obama did less than I expected to improve the lives of the impoverished especially minorities.

I agree there.

Can anybody point to any legislation he pushed or signed off on which was designated to improve the lives of those in poverty hell?

Well, going by here, 5, 12, 13, 17, 19, and 23 qualify.

 

[lauriandres]

Instead, let me give you an example. At my kids schools, every year they were given work books. These are books designed to be cut up, torn apart, written on, and other-wise physically manipulated, which allow children to engage with the material physically as well as mentally. This improves student understanding and outcomes. However, work books are expensive. Not all school systems can afford to give each child two or three such books every year as a supplement to the text. Further, because you always have to buy the latest work book, you have to have the latest text to accompany it. Not all school systems can afford to replace their texts at this rate. Since the work books are used two-three times per week, they have a long-term, incremental, building effect on child learning.

I can pull out another five or six additional teaching methods that are much more accessible to middle-class children, if you like.

During the Soviet time the main books belonged to school and were recycled. Some were used maybe even for 10 seasons. Everybody received them at the beginning of the season (had to cover them with protective paper) and gave back to school in spring.
So called work books were also distributed by school and were affordable. You had to buy empty workbooks (to sketch, write, do calculus) from the shop.
Now you have to buy workbooks (both those with creative elements and blank ones) and main theory books, but the main theory is also available on the web.
For example:
https://opik.fyysika.ee/?locale=en_GB
https://opik.fyysika.ee/index.php/book/view/36#/section/9274

Should be easy to publish the same stuff in US in English for a multimillionaire basketball player as a charity project unless they have family to feed . Of course, in theory that kind of material should be created by some government entity which is responsible for education.
In general, my point is that if kids were able to study more or less successfully in post-war Soviet Union, Germany, Japan and eastern bloc countries then i seriously doubt that life for blacks is currently worse.