Rational CoViD-19 Discussion Thread: Science vs. Politics

babe

Well-Known Member
Hey, this is a Fauci conspiracy theory about Bill Gates and his vaccine business hiring people in decision making government roles to boost their control of the vaccine market. Do we get to talk about crap?
 

babe

Well-Known Member
Hey, this is a Fauci conspiracy theory about Bill Gates and his vaccine business hiring people in decision making government roles to boost their control of the vaccine market. Do we get to talk about crap?
hmmm...... a while ago I did an actual informed comment and it wouldn't post. Do we have AI thought police at work in JFC???
 

Ron Mexico

Well-Known Member
Contributor
I see reasonable evidence that authorities are changing their opinions. Discussions of the actual genome are being systematically suppressed on the net, and not published in the peer reviewed journals.
It does appear to have changed and there is evidence of that recently. A lot of people assumed it would change or had changed but no one had any proof. There is some now.

Even the latest outbreak in Beijing seems to be a different one. It might even be different from the one in USA/Europe.
 

Ron Mexico

Well-Known Member
Contributor
Hey, this is a Fauci conspiracy theory about Bill Gates and his vaccine business hiring people in decision making government roles to boost their control of the vaccine market. Do we get to talk about crap?
Bill Gates does seem to be hurting for money so I could see him really going after this. It really makes sense with his entire personality and life mission to just be doing it to trick everyone, when he could have just stuck to actual money making things he was already doing that he stepped away from.
 

babe

Well-Known Member
Bill Gates does seem to be hurting for money so I could see him really going after this. It really makes sense with his entire personality and life mission to just be doing it to trick everyone, when he could have just stuck to actual money making things he was already doing that he stepped away from.
If anyone who knows nothing can make up an all-inclusive general theory of reality that explains everything, we should all worship and believe. Facts be damned.

However, there is no doubt that Bill (and Melinda) Gates earned their money by being quite impressively self-seeking and benefited from some favorable court rulings that at least winked at some of their anti-competitive methods which could have been ruled against.

Neither is there any reasonable question about their concerns about world issues like over-population. As among others who are more or less Malthusian theorists, they consider world overpopulation the most critical world problem, even over climate change.

A cynical pop-shot artist could make that out as reasonably consistent with doing world-wide birth control services, and politically opposing government programs which are too lenient about growth and development.

Sorta like Obama telling the African rural folks it's bad to get refrigerators or air conditioning......

Or telling Americans it's bad to drive big toy-hauler trucks or RVs around the country for a lark.

I would rather have my vaccines made by..... oh, say..... Mother Teresa.

Bill Gates might not actually be able to resist doing something that would immediately correct world overpopulation. I understand he likes the Prince Consort who has allegedly wished he could die and come back to life as a virus or bacteria of truly plague possibilities. The last I heard, the Consort was still consorting, so maybe he is not exactly Covid 19. Maybe there are worse plagues to come.
 

babe

Well-Known Member
Bill Gates does seem to be hurting for money so I could see him really going after this. It really makes sense with his entire personality and life mission to just be doing it to trick everyone, when he could have just stuck to actual money making things he was already doing that he stepped away from.
I was really hopeful for a few microseconds when I heard a congressman arguing for publishing the basic internet algorithm to break up the Google/Yahoo cartel inside track and let other (smaller) companies provide other versions of the search engines so they could tweak searches to be favorable to their own agendas. This would mean you could find stuff that Google hides.

I would love it if Microsoft were slammed for using tactics that prevent other operating systems from working in Windows and **** like that.

Until that all happens, human rights have gone out the Windows because we're being played every time we try to do anythning with technology.

Neither Bill Gates nor Rockefeller X are humanitarians.
 

babe

Well-Known Member
Just taking a breath from my florid speculative impulses, here is a recent, and very impressive, published report from PNAS....


Note the assertion in the final paragraphs that actual genomic sequences of the variants of Covid are avaiible for free if you want to look at them.

This really blows up the conspiracy theories.

Also, the development of the variant strains is pretty well documented and rationally depicted in the diagrams.

(edit) Not so recent. The article came out April 8. So I was wrong in my enthusiasm for the apparent open-handed information available. More towards the significant concerns that we are not getting more recent analyses like this.
 
Last edited:

babe

Well-Known Member
Here's the article with the June date of publication..... it addresses not Covid genome data but research into human susceptibilities due to human genome variants. Looks like we have two genes that are associated with greater susceptibility to the virus. Not "causitive", just predictive perhaps if someone with such a gene gets the virus, meaning they need to be more careful or treated with more urgency.
 

babe

Well-Known Member
And here's a very recent article, out just a few days.....

One Covid strain is apparently out-competing other variants. This variant is a mutation of the spike, or binding protein sequence. It is not known to present more risk when infection occurs, or to result in a more severe case. It just gets there first and excludes other variants on the basis of reducing sites they can bind.

I would guess the resulting disease is less likely to result in severe development of the disease. Sticks too hard to move down to the lungs before the immune system develops a reaction. Just guessing of course. babe heap speculative.
 

babe

Well-Known Member
OK. I've got to steel my nerves and prepare myself mentally for another trip to Califorfnia. That means I'll hafta wear my mask practically to get outta the car and run the gas pump in broad daylight. Without torturing myself with how toxic gasoline fumes are to Covid, or sunlight, or trying to factor in wind speeds and directions.

So here's a good article I missed before, about promising new research into antiviral products effective against Corona virus....

Here's a summary in two paragraphs...


Amazingly, this mechanism of action, binding of high mannose sugars on the surface of viruses, means that H84T is effective not only against influenza, but also against Ebola, HIV, measles, MERS, a new deadly viral illness that was first reported in Saudi Arabia in 2012, SARS and all other coronaviruses tested.

Even more promising is that the compound works where Tamiflu (oseltamivir), the current standard therapy for severe flu, has failed. “We’ve also shown that there may be a synergistic effect between H84T and Tamiflu,” says Markovitz.


a new paper published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, Markovitz, first author Evelyn Coves-Datson, a M.D., Ph.D. student, Akira Ono, Ph.D., professor of microbiology and immunology and their team have shown that an engineered compound based on a banana lectin, a protein called H84T, has real potential for clinical use against influenza.

hmmm..... bananas, anyone????
 

babe

Well-Known Member
OK. I've got to steel my nerves and prepare myself mentally for another trip to Califorfnia. That means I'll hafta wear my mask practically to get outta the car and run the gas pump in broad daylight. Without torturing myself with how toxic gasoline fumes are to Covid, or sunlight, or trying to factor in wind speeds and directions.

So here's a good article I missed before, about promising new research into antiviral products effective against Corona virus....

Here's a summary in two paragraphs...


Amazingly, this mechanism of action, binding of high mannose sugars on the surface of viruses, means that H84T is effective not only against influenza, but also against Ebola, HIV, measles, MERS, a new deadly viral illness that was first reported in Saudi Arabia in 2012, SARS and all other coronaviruses tested.

Even more promising is that the compound works where Tamiflu (oseltamivir), the current standard therapy for severe flu, has failed. “We’ve also shown that there may be a synergistic effect between H84T and Tamiflu,” says Markovitz.


a new paper published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, Markovitz, first author Evelyn Coves-Datson, a M.D., Ph.D. student, Akira Ono, Ph.D., professor of microbiology and immunology and their team have shown that an engineered compound based on a banana lectin, a protein called H84T, has real potential for clinical use against influenza.

hmmm..... bananas, anyone????
Time for a summary.

In the early 1980s, I was working in the Pathology Dept. at the U of U College of Medicine, working for a group of very impressive folks who were in the next few years forming ARUP. My work was in immunology and testing. I was reading all of the peer-reviewed journals of Biochemistry and Medicine. When I left that Dept I went into business as a chemical consultant, because my primary education was Chemistry.

There was a little blip about that time about some top researcher in virology suddenly dying under mysterious circumstances, unexpectedly. Two of my family have been involved in chemical and biological warfare, and knew these researchers. The worry was that they had accomplished something of tremendous import, and that it had the potential of great pandemics for political purposes. And you know, people who know too much just can't be left to tell the story.

One of the "tools" that had been developed was a merged virus of the Corona type, with extreme infectivity. I have ever since known that something like this could be possible.

The circumstances of the Covid-19 undeniably involve a release from a research lab somewhere, perhaps in Wuhan but not absolutely so. It was spread among the crowd at a world sporting contests, where athletes and spectators from all over the world were present.

There are some lines of reason which involve some political interests advance knowledge of the intent to release. I noticed an interview on a mainstream media program in November raising the issue of what could we do about a pandemic, where the coming events were presciently discussed.

There is not point to even try to deny that Bill Gates is of the commitment to do what it takes to reduce world overpopulation, and it is his character to take positions t5o exploit the possible pandemics for his own profit...... hence his involvement in corporations doing research on viral disease and vacinations, and it is undeniable that he had connections with the Wuhan rexsearch institutions.

If there is any person who cares to run out the Trump conspiracy theories about what a wealthy man can connive with others, foreign powers say, to do, there is no justification for not fully investigating all these issues.

Meanwhile, HCQ has proven effective as a prophylactic at least for some types of patients, and as a treatment for some. There are other treatments that have value. I have nothing against having ten vaccines from ten different companies, either.

There are many things we can do beyond just social distance and wearing masks, which are possibly very effective as well.

I see a lot being done where ever I go that make it safer to be open.

We should not be digging deeper into the political utility of this for transforming society.
 

Jonah

Well-Known Member
Time for a summary.

In the early 1980s, I was working in the Pathology Dept. at the U of U College of Medicine, working for a group of very impressive folks who were in the next few years forming ARUP. My work was in immunology and testing. I was reading all of the peer-reviewed journals of Biochemistry and Medicine. When I left that Dept I went into business as a chemical consultant, because my primary education was Chemistry.

There was a little blip about that time about some top researcher in virology suddenly dying under mysterious circumstances, unexpectedly. Two of my family have been involved in chemical and biological warfare, and knew these researchers. The worry was that they had accomplished something of tremendous import, and that it had the potential of great pandemics for political purposes. And you know, people who know too much just can't be left to tell the story.

One of the "tools" that had been developed was a merged virus of the Corona type, with extreme infectivity. I have ever since known that something like this could be possible.

The circumstances of the Covid-19 undeniably involve a release from a research lab somewhere, perhaps in Wuhan but not absolutely so. It was spread among the crowd at a world sporting contests, where athletes and spectators from all over the world were present.

There are some lines of reason which involve some political interests advance knowledge of the intent to release. I noticed an interview on a mainstream media program in November raising the issue of what could we do about a pandemic, where the coming events were presciently discussed.

There is not point to even try to deny that Bill Gates is of the commitment to do what it takes to reduce world overpopulation, and it is his character to take positions t5o exploit the possible pandemics for his own profit...... hence his involvement in corporations doing research on viral disease and vacinations, and it is undeniable that he had connections with the Wuhan rexsearch institutions.

If there is any person who cares to run out the Trump conspiracy theories about what a wealthy man can connive with others, foreign powers say, to do, there is no justification for not fully investigating all these issues.

Meanwhile, HCQ has proven effective as a prophylactic at least for some types of patients, and as a treatment for some. There are other treatments that have value. I have nothing against having ten vaccines from ten different companies, either.

There are many things we can do beyond just social distance and wearing masks, which are possibly very effective as well.

I see a lot being done where ever I go that make it safer to be open.

We should not be digging deeper into the political utility of this for transforming society.
More than a few times I’ll start off liking a post, or at least appreciating the effort to share, then when they inevitably veer off into what I judgmentally consider crazyland, I end up dismissing the entire post. That’s a too common and narrow-minded fault of mine. I should try to be more generous and show some appreciation for the diversity of opinion here, especially when it’s sincere and not obviously trolling, rather than just giving the thumbs up to posts with which I agree or that support my own point of view.
 

babe

Well-Known Member
More than a few times I’ll start off liking a post, or at least appreciating the effort to share, then when they inevitably veer off into what I judgmentally consider crazyland, I end up dismissing the entire post. That’s a too common and narrow-minded fault of mine. I should try to be more generous and show some appreciation for the diversity of opinion here, especially when it’s sincere and not obviously trolling, rather than just giving the thumbs up to posts with which I agree or that support my own point of view.
Thank for that effort.

Clearly, I am in no position to "know" much, but with a few items here that should be of concern. I know there are a lot of unabashed speculators on this subject who are "out there" with grand theories or suspicions. But the facts of concern are within reach, and could either disprove the thesis, or yield significant positive values for keeping a clearly open society.

We owe it to ourselves and the world to make that effort.

People with disproportionate influence need to know we care to enforce good laws and root out any nefarious schemes they might try to run out.
 

babe

Well-Known Member
Just browsing in catch-up mode...... here's a report over a month old now....


People who irrationally, or emotional deny this kind of science, who have obvious politicalbiases attached, have no ground to stand on in any sense, denying or restricting the use of hydroxychloroquine.

My advice to people concerned with lack of access is that we should fake a mass malaria epidemic and just get the damn treatment.

In context of comparative treatments, it's twice as good as other treatments being used to treat Covid-19. That's what the stats in this report say.l
 

One Brow

Well-Known Member
Just browsing in catch-up mode...... here's a report over a month old now....


People who irrationally, or emotional deny this kind of science, who have obvious politicalbiases attached, have no ground to stand on in any sense, denying or restricting the use of hydroxychloroquine.
It's rational to deny the evidence from the Henry Ford study, because it's bad evidence.

This says it better than I ever could.

 

babe

Well-Known Member
It's rational to deny the evidence from the Henry Ford study, because it's bad evidence.

This says it better than I ever could.

You are not a scientist. A lot of officials like Fauci are neither scientists nor doctors, really, when they talk out of their asses and give no supporting evidence, or make up crap.

I have seen some fairly respected journals doing unscientific crap on HCQ.

The Ford study was well done, with a large sample of patients well-documented. Go read the report before you pull crap outta your *** or offa the politically censored webz.

HCQ is not the only effective antiviral we could use.

And if we installed air disinfecting units like uv light or electrostatic filters/ozone generators in the AC ductworks, we could dispense with most mask wearing in business settings and hotels, because social distancing would be sufficient precaution

Crazy Cloward-Piven politics meant to wreck our economy. Fauci is a tool for that crap..
 

babe

Well-Known Member
So here is a letter from the Ford system----


While the study is not the highest level of investigation, it is observational research with the complete patient files for a very large number of patients, comparing patients treated with a variety of procedures, unselected for any variables except forf HCQ, andseparately for Azithromycin and also separately for Zinc, a common cold remedy sold in almost every grocery store. Azithromycin and Zinc also improved the results, but not as much as HCQ.

It is reasonable to use any safe, well-studied resource, as these three all are, to treat patients when the anti-viral effects show any benefit.

And, I may say, we have quite a few such antivirals on our pharmacy shelves.
 

One Brow

Well-Known Member
You are not a scientist.
Neither are you. However, rather than asking you to rely on my expertise, I linked to an actual scientist who read the study and identified the many flaws in it.

A lot of officials like Fauci are neither scientists nor doctors, really,
That's why I offered a link to someone who, like Fauci, actually is both a doctor and a scientist.

The Ford study was well done, with a large sample of patients well-documented.
Thank you for affirming that that don't understand what it means for a study to be wel-done.

And if we installed air disinfecting units like uv light or electrostatic filters/ozone generators in the AC ductworks, we could dispense with most mask wearing in business settings and hotels, because social distancing would be sufficient precaution
*chortle*
 

babe

Well-Known Member
Neither are you. However, rather than asking you to rely on my expertise, I linked to an actual scientist who read the study and identified the many flaws in it.

The fact that I worked as a scientist my whole working life, and never had anyone successfully overturn any bit of my work for any reason is, apparently, something you are unqualified to assess or characterize.

My sad experience working for people who were the top of their fields, and more or less making a nuisance of myself for proving some of their previous work done wrong, and seeing how they wrote their research proposals and how they secured their funds, and used them, gives me little assurance that we should endow "Science" with any sort of priestly role as major lights of society or governance.



That's why I offered a link to someone who, like Fauci, actually is both a doctor and a scientist.

While there is a valuable function for having more than one side on any point of science, the Government has a known bias in public policy in favor of too much authority and too much regulation and too much trust in the cliques who most obsequiously seek to hang their career stars on the system.



Thank you for affirming that that don't understand what it means for a study to be wel-done.

No thanks deserved here for your being such a stupid uncomprehending faithful believer in a false political narrative and wishing to justify it with wrong-headed authoritarian beliefs that are contrary to real science.l



*chortle*

gag.
you should be ashamed to indulge in such stupidity.
 
Top