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The Non-Jazz NBA Thread in the Jazz Section


LoPo

Well-Known Member
People bashed me for wanting him, but check out this stat on Frank Nkilitina:

Ntilikina isn’t the biggest name on this list but is coming off of a very successful series against the Suns where he held Devin Booker and Chris Paul to 3-of-40 shooting. He is entering the final year of a two-year $3.8 million contract, and with Tim Hardaway Jr. coming back next year, he might not find the playing time.
 


Handlogten's Heros

Well-Known Member
2019 Award Winner
2020-21 Award Winner
People bashed me for wanting him, but check out this stat on Frank Nkilitina:

Ntilikina isn’t the biggest name on this list but is coming off of a very successful series against the Suns where he held Devin Booker and Chris Paul to 3-of-40 shooting. He is entering the final year of a two-year $3.8 million contract, and with Tim Hardaway Jr. coming back next year, he might not find the playing time.
On a minimum deal I like him. His offense is gonna hurt but he is what we'd like Forrest to become.
 

infection

Well-Known Member
Staff member
2018 Award Winner
2019 Award Winner
People bashed me for wanting him, but check out this stat on Frank Nkilitina:

Ntilikina isn’t the biggest name on this list but is coming off of a very successful series against the Suns where he held Devin Booker and Chris Paul to 3-of-40 shooting. He is entering the final year of a two-year $3.8 million contract, and with Tim Hardaway Jr. coming back next year, he might not find the playing time.
I don’t know about people bashing. I was a proponent and I never remember being bashed.
 

LogGrad98

Well-Known Member
Contributor
2020-21 Award Winner
Add in the amount of times we correctly executed the strategy but later in the quarter ended up fouling on a non shooting foul and gave up free throws because of it.

Also add in the fact that it sends a message to just not get back and how many times we could easily just get back in the play but preference is to use a foul instead cuz we lazy.

Then compare our willingness to commit those fouls freely and how allergic we are to fouling on the perimeter by being physical.

It’s annoying and the math probably still works in its favor but I hate how soft our team is and this strategy seems to feed that issue directly. We have some horrible “smart” habits.
The message is sends to not get back on D is the most egregious imo. It drives lazy play. As a result we often see players just hold back knowing the take foul is coming. It builds really bad habits and flies in the face of "play hard".

Hey get out there and play hard! But don't run back on D, just foul the guy. But play hard, ok?
 

LogGrad98

Well-Known Member
Contributor
2020-21 Award Winner
It’s amazing to me that Quin doesn’t use challenges because “maybe I’ll need it later,” but has no problems with take fouls, not realizing that you may “need that later.” Seriously, how many times have we had 1) someone in foul trouble who earned at least one transition foul, 2) fouled while in the bonus, or 3) ended up clear path fouling? Total up how many times that hurt us and then compile a list for me of how many times we were hurt because we no longer had a challenge and see which list is bigger.
Spot on. One of my biggest pet peeves with Snyder. The unwillingness to use those challenges is unbelievable. Then he gets self-fulfilling prophecy as he finally uses one and it fails so he thinks "see, I was always right never to challenge, they just fail anyway and it's wasted."

Makes me think of my son when he was learning to play basketball in Jr. Jazz. He would be on the court and not take any shots, even though I knew he could shoot pretty well and he was taller than most anyone. Then he'd finally shoot and miss. Then he'd say "I knew I shouldn't have shot that." When you artificially reduce your sample size any undesirable outcome gets inflated.
 

infection

Well-Known Member
Staff member
2018 Award Winner
2019 Award Winner
The message is sends to not get back on D is the most egregious imo. It drives lazy play. As a result we often see players just hold back knowing the take foul is coming. It builds really bad habits and flies in the face of "play hard".

Hey get out there and play hard! But don't run back on D, just foul the guy. But play hard, ok?
This is a huge beef I have with Quin. He sees the direct consequence of specific things, but doesn't ever look at how dynamics change after that. He assumes that if you change one variable, then all other variables remain static and when we melt down in the playoffs, he's so baffled why all the other variables in the equation changed. It's like the idea having a center who shoots 32% from three. The initial thought is that this is not a great percentage. But it's not really about that percentage. It's about the changing dynamics of running that on the floor and how it changes the game when the defense has to make small adjustments depending on what's happening. Quin can't see all of the secondary and tertiary defensive issues that arise from teaching people to just do take fouls. Likewise, this is the big issue with "Rudy can't ____." Quin runs a system that makes funneling to Rudy be the main action. And the problem isn't just funneling to Rudy, it's that the entire defense doesn't work with rotations because everyone is taught that Rudy is the helper and you never help another guy. This is really where our defensive system comes crashing down. It's not because "Rudy can't be in multiple places at once" (well, it is, but that's not it). It's because nobody is accustomed to covering for another guy. When someone gets burned on the perimeter, how often are all the other guys just ball watching? The idea is to have Rudy do that because "he's the best at it, yada, yada," but it spreads Rudy too thin. We have an entire defensive system where nobody is mentally checked in on what they need to do and how the coverage changes over the course of a possession. We employ nobody helping because Quin sees the initial idea of "why don't we just have Rudy always be the helper because he's the best at it," and then we go creating issues because the offense knows they can exploit by only having to account for Rudy. I have loathed to talk about AK and have mentally excommunicated him from the franchise, but damn wouldn't having him on the floor for help coverage with Gobert be exactly the kind of crutch that could make Quin look competent. I absolutely hated his man-to-man defense, but him being the secondary guy that's supposed to cover from the weak side while Rudy is at the rim.
 

NUMBERICA

Well-Known Member
People bashed me for wanting him, but check out this stat on Frank Nkilitina:

Ntilikina isn’t the biggest name on this list but is coming off of a very successful series against the Suns where he held Devin Booker and Chris Paul to 3-of-40 shooting. He is entering the final year of a two-year $3.8 million contract, and with Tim Hardaway Jr. coming back next year, he might not find the playing time.
You have some kind of persecution complex.
 

LogGrad98

Well-Known Member
Contributor
2020-21 Award Winner
This is a huge beef I have with Quin. He sees the direct consequence of specific things, but doesn't ever look at how dynamics change after that. He assumes that if you change one variable, then all other variables remain static and when we melt down in the playoffs, he's so baffled why all the other variables in the equation changed. It's like the idea having a center who shoots 32% from three. The initial thought is that this is not a great percentage. But it's not really about that percentage. It's about the changing dynamics of running that on the floor and how it changes the game when the defense has to make small adjustments depending on what's happening. Quin can't see all of the secondary and tertiary defensive issues that arise from teaching people to just do take fouls. Likewise, this is the big issue with "Rudy can't ____." Quin runs a system that makes funneling to Rudy be the main action. And the problem isn't just funneling to Rudy, it's that the entire defense doesn't work with rotations because everyone is taught that Rudy is the helper and you never help another guy. This is really where our defensive system comes crashing down. It's not because "Rudy can't be in multiple places at once" (well, it is, but that's not it). It's because nobody is accustomed to covering for another guy. When someone gets burned on the perimeter, how often are all the other guys just ball watching? The idea is to have Rudy do that because "he's the best at it, yada, yada," but it spreads Rudy too thin. We have an entire defensive system where nobody is mentally checked in on what they need to do and how the coverage changes over the course of a possession. We employ nobody helping because Quin sees the initial idea of "why don't we just have Rudy always be the helper because he's the best at it," and then we go creating issues because the offense knows they can exploit by only having to account for Rudy. I have loathed to talk about AK and have mentally excommunicated him from the franchise, but damn wouldn't having him on the floor for help coverage with Gobert be exactly the kind of crutch that could make Quin look competent. I absolutely hated his man-to-man defense, but him being the secondary guy that's supposed to cover from the weak side while Rudy is at the rim.
I share your sentiments about AK, but frankly having him as the PF on this team would be epic. Just like Hayward is exactly the kind of player we need, but I would rather have a colonoscopy from Orin Scrivello sans anesthesia than have him back again.
 

Saint Cy of JFC

Well-Known Member
The only time anyone got bashed for anything Frank N related was when he was on the Knicks and people were saying to trade for him.

There's a Frank N thread from this off-season where pretty much everyone was in agreement, or neutral, about signing him this year for the minimum.
 


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