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The Non-Jazz NBA Thread in the Jazz Section

Also remember just because that garbage player you like has moderate success on another team doesn't mean he would on the Jazz.
 
Shaq Harrison was awful on the Jazz whenever we got a chance to see him.

Quin is married to his style on offense. He doesn't want players who don't fit. Forrest is an exception because he's exceptionally smart.

Burks, to me, is clearly better than Clarkson, but he also never seemed to play the style Quin wanted.

No matter how much you like Kris Dunn or Shaw Harrison, those dudes will never look good on the Jazz because Quin isn't going to change anything to put them in a position to succeed. Our offense is basically the worst offense for those players.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Shaq Harrison was awful on the Jazz whenever we got a chance to see him.

Quin is married to his style on offense. He doesn't want players who don't fit. Forrest is an exception because he's exceptionally smart.

Burks, to me, is clearly better than Clarkson, but he also never seemed to play the style Quin wanted.

No matter how much you like Kris Dunn or Shaw Harrison, those dudes will never look good on the Jazz because Quin isn't going to change anything to put them in a position to succeed. Our offense is basically the worst offense for those players.
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So limited offensive players who can’t shoot are bad fits hmmmmmm do we have any of those on our roster?
 
KqWIN said:
I was surprised Shaq didn't get signed, so I suspected there was something we didn't know because it seemed obvious that he would get a contract otherwise. My assumption wasn't even that he was bad, if you go back and look I was thinking that maybe he was looking for a better contract than a minimum. That's why it's funny to me. It's taken a life of it's own and I have no idea why. The basis of this whole thing was that I believed Shaq was too good to be passed on by every team. Was my thought that he's bad and we shouldn't sign him? It wasn't that at all lol.

You're acting like I blindly follow the rule of, "if a player is out of the league, he must be bad". If that was the case, why have I been more supportive of Galloway? I do consider it in some situations. Dunn and Aminu are good examples of this. It's my belief that if they were healthy, they'd be in the league right now. I don't have any insight on their current situation, but NBA teams do. They could be wrong, absolutely. NBA teams could totally misevaluate a player's health. But they do have more info than me, so yeah, I would appeal to authority in this situation. To me it's a more logical assumption than assuming they're healthy. If they were signed to rosters I would absolutely feel better about their health situation.

But for someone like Galloway? I don't see the same level concern. Personally I think his agent did a bad job of having him go to camp with GSW who is short on roster spots. Same goes for the "any random G-Leaguer" type player. It's very difficult for a player on the fringes to find his footing. The right situation is so important for a player who hasn't gotten a real chance. I've never held it against the GP2, Matthews, Caruso, Martin types. Like with Galloway, I don't see the reason to. It's easy for me to see why teams miss on those guys.

Not being on a team is just a data point. In some contexts I think it means something, in other's it could mean nothing. Even if it means something to me, that something isn't always that the player sucks.
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It’s a data point you love and I wouldn’t factor it in at all. 30 teams pass on good players all the time in drafts and in free agency. Garrison is another example of a guy that is likely better than 3-4 of the guys we have in our roster. All of them out of the rotation basically so not a huge deal but just an example of the opportunity cost of clinging to “our” projects.

It’s a similar logic to “well he got cut by so and so team so they must know something” or “this guy or gal meets all the criteria for the employee we want to hire but they have been unemployed for 6 months so there must be a reason” or “this girl seems great but Johnson from accounting went on a few dates with her and then never called her back so…” I just think it’s a silly thing to factor in to your evaluation. With Dunn I have always said “if healthy” that’s a fair disclaimer but I’m not going to assume he is not healthy because no team has signed him… Galloway is healthy AF by all accounts and he’s out there as a free agent. How a team like Denver isn’t knocking down his door I don’t know. Why we haven’t replaced Oni with him I don’t understand. He’d be better than Forrest.
 
Shaq also got zero chances outside of garbage time. Could he be a better version of what Forrest brings? My guess is probably.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Shaq also got zero chances outside of garbage time. Could he be a better version of what Forrest brings? My guess is probably.
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Not sure about him being better than Forrest overall. A more disruptive defender? Probably. But Forrest is showing some pretty keen awareness on offense that I never saw from Shaq (regardless of what team he was playing on).

For me, the argument isn’t Forrest vs Dunn. Instead, it’s Oni versus Dunn, THEN let Forrest and Dunn battle it out. If Dunn never earned a minute, that’d be totally fine with me. But Oni is done as far as I’m concerned; no question that Dunn gives us potential that we currently do not possess.

There’s also the issue of Q’s willingness to use situational defenders in short substitution patterns. If he’s not going to do this, then it doesn’t matter what we say about any of this ****, tbpfhwy.

Also, if we’re going to invest this much time in Forrest, then we better convert him from a two-way so that we can use him in the playoffs, if absolutely necessary. And, as soon as we see that this is even a remotely possible scenario, I want to see some extra leash extended so that he can really experiment with his forcefulness on both sides of the ball. Encourage that experimentation, pls. Especially on defense.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
It’s a data point you love and I wouldn’t factor it in at all. 30 teams pass on good players all the time in drafts and in free agency. Garrison is another example of a guy that is likely better than 3-4 of the guys we have in our roster. All of them out of the rotation basically so not a huge deal but just an example of the opportunity cost of clinging to “our” projects.

It’s a similar logic to “well he got cut by so and so team so they must know something” or “this guy or gal meets all the criteria for the employee we want to hire but they have been unemployed for 6 months so there must be a reason” or “this girl seems great but Johnson from accounting went on a few dates with her and then never called her back so…” I just think it’s a silly thing to factor in to your evaluation. With Dunn I have always said “if healthy” that’s a fair disclaimer but I’m not going to assume he is not healthy because no team has signed him… Galloway is healthy AF by all accounts and he’s out there as a free agent. How a team like Denver isn’t knocking down his door I don’t know. Why we haven’t replaced Oni with him I don’t understand. He’d be better than Forrest.
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OK first of all, we've seriously got to stop comparing women seeking partners to basketball players seeking NBA positions. Come on now that is the most ridiculous thing said on this forum lol.

When it comes to a player like Garrison Matthews, I don't consider it. I never have. I've never held it against Langston Galloway either. So when you bring those guys up, you're talking to a wall because that argument was never made. I've used it in certain situations where I think it does mean something, but there's really no point in bringing up counter examples when I literally said it doesn't matter to me in that situation. I'm agreeing with you. You shouldn't hold it against Matthews or Galloway and no one ever did. This is like asking someone an employee why they're unemployed and them responding by saying that they had other responsibilities or just needed a break. That should mean nothing as far as their candidacy. You also shouldn't assume that just because someone is unemployed that there's a bad reason for it. That's why it's not a concern for Galloway or Matthews for me. I can see how they got lost in the shuffle. If it was someone like Shaq, I might assume that they're actually mulling offers because he's too strong of a candidate to not have offers.

In Dunn's case, I didn't have a good feeling on his health to begin with. I read about his injuries and recovery which made me really concerned. I'm well aware that team's could misevaluate his health, but I do believe that his current health and fitness level is what's keeping him from having a team. When all NBA teams (who have way more intel on his current situation) seemingly make that evaluation on his status it does strengthen my concerns. I hope he's healthy and for his own sake, but I'm not optimistic about it. This is more like if there was a well known problem about a potential candidate. Not only is this problem well known, but you know that your competitors and/or parties that know more about the situation did not offer.
 
MeloTheJazzKiller said:
12th place.

Last year we finished in 4th place in the East.
This year we are in 12th place.

It's not funny.
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Yeah but number one in your hearts.

Besides, 12 starts with a 1, and the next number is 2, so you’re really somewhere between first and second place. Or you could claim both first and second place, with the next closest team to you being all the way down in third. But 3 is also Nerlens Noel’s number so you guys have got that spot locked down, too.
 
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