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The official "let's impeach Trump" thread

Phew



The transcript can’t derail this now. Right?

Well, Trump wouldn't be releasing the transcripts without a messaging rollout that will trickle down to the GOP faithful, and find its way into the way the media reports on it.

I absolutely expect it to be a repeat of the Barr letter, the Democrats need to get ahead of this by not placing too much emphasis on the "transcript" when it's released as you've mentioned before.
 
Yeah, that’s typically the case. But they heard it from Shapiro or saw it on Facebook so obviously it makes sense to them. If you disagree, you’re a hopelessly hateful and bigoted person. Convince me otherwise.

They’re both teens so obviously it’s the same thing...

Idiot.

Lol
 
So you would agree that Congress is entitled to, and needs to see, the report in question so that they can see the full contents of the allegations and evaluate their merits.

Congrats, you're with US.



I'm going to go through this bit by bit, because everything you've heard is pure spin. Please remember, Ukraine/Russia is the part of the world I've been most interested in studying for a couple of years, and I put enough time into it that it's effectively a part time job.

Important background information:

Victor Yanukovych was the Russian backed president of Ukraine from 2010 to 2014. He's an important figure in the US/Ukrainian relationship for a couple reasons.

1. Paul Manafort worked on Yanukovich's political campaigns, funded largely with the help of Russian oligarch Oleg Deripaska, including his 2010 Presidential campaign. He did so even though the US government opposed Yanukovich's candidacy - effectively working AGAINST stated US interests in the region. Manafort later was Trump's campaign manager during the critical primary and convention period. (Source: https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/28/politics/mueller-search-warrants-manafort/index.html). Manafort was ultimately convicted of crimes related to this work.

2. Yanukoych's work as President of Ukraine ultimately led to a revolution in the country in the 2014. I've posted pictures of the Maidan before where the revolution happened. The country largely revolted over Yanukovych corruptly turning his back on further integration with the West through a cooperation agreement with the European Union. Yanukovych did so because he was personally profiting by stronger relationships with Europe. He committed treason against his country as president by putting his own financial interests ahead of Ukraine's. Yanukovych has been in exile in Southern Russia for more than five years and was convicted, in absentia, of treason. (Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Yanukovych )


These dates, and names are important because Hunter Biden joined the board of Burisma Holdings, a large oil and gas extraction company in Ukraine, approximately two months after the Euromaidan revolution. Further, Burisma was founded by Mykola Zlochevsky, who was a Yanukovich political ally, to the extent that he served as the minister of ecology and natural resources during the early portions of the Yanukovich administration. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mykola_Zlochevsky

The investigation into Burisma holdings was tied to Zlochevsky's position as the minister of ecology and natural resources. This is a position that he held from 2010 -2012. Zlochevksy later had a position on the national security council in Ukraine from 2012, until the government collapsed in February 2014. The allegation (probably true) was that Zlochevksy used his position in the government to grant his own companies, including Burisma, licenses that it would not have otherwise gotten. In effect, self-dealing. (Source: https://www.kyivpost.com/ukraine-politics/trump-whistleblower-scandal-explained-from-ukraine.html) . No one has EVER alleged that any of those activities occurred after Hunter Biden was named to the board of Burisma - a few months after Zlochevsky and Yanukovich fled the country. As a result, it is completely and utterly incorrect to suggest that any prosecutor in Ukraine was ever looking into Hunter Biden personally. The conduct that Burisma was investigated for happened entirely before he was ever involved with the company.

The Prosecutor:

Viktor Shokin is the former general prosecutor of Ukraine, and was appointed in 2015 - some three years after the investigation into Zlovhevsky's activities had been initiated. After the 2014 revolution, the position of general prosecutor turned over several times. Shokin was the third general prosecutor appointed to the position in twelve months. Several allies of the Yanukovych administration remained in various governmental positions and were frustrating investigations into the previous administration by stonewalling and hiding information. Prosecutors had been sabotaging investigations into Zlochevsky's activities since at least 2014, more than a year before Shokin came into office. (Source (Russian language): https://gordonua.com/news/politics/...r_cju1d0zj90sut8gci7ucvnbxaeb9jqfeas8woba4f30 )

Shokin was prosecutor for barely a year and was INTENSELY unpopular in Ukraine, public protests were held demanding his resignation approximately six months before Joe Biden pushed for his firing. (Source: https://www.unian.info/society/1170...nce-demanding-shokins-resignation-photos.html). The irony here is that the complaint was that Shokin was not doing ENOUGH to prosecute old corruption cases. Shokin was not a anti corruption crusader who was looking into the wrong people. In fact, under Shokin's watch, the Ukrainian government agreed to unfreeze $23.5 million worth of property claimed by Zlochevsky. Shokin was a non-functioning officer in a country with deep seated corruption problems who was not actively prosecuting these cases.

There is also no indication that Shokin took any particular interest in the Burisma case until there was an opportunity for reprisal against Joe Biden. The best English language Kyiv newspaper was unable to find any public statements by Shokin about Burisma or Hunter Biden while in office. ( https://www.kyivpost.com/ukraine-politics/trump-whistleblower-scandal-explained-from-ukraine.html ). As a result, there's literally no reason for anyone to believe that either Joe or Hunter Biden perceived Shokin as a personal threat. For there to be a conflict of interest, they would have to know that Shokin was actually potentially a detriment to their personal fortunes. There is no evidence that this was true.

Feel free to share with all your conservative friends. And I'm willing to answer follow up questions. Reading the GOP story about this whole thing is beyond frustrating if you follow the local news there.
This seems to be very good information, but it doesn't address what I see as a very large concern. What was Burisma paying Hunter Biden for? What work did he do? What expertise did he have? Why won't he answer questions to that effect? Is it reasonable to believe that his father has never had a conversation with him regarding his work in the Ukraine? I don't believe for a second that anyone on the left would be okay leaving these sorts of questions unanswered if they related to the dealings of a conservative politician. We'd be getting lectures on how their silence on these matters is proof of their guilt.
 
LOL SHOOT ME NOW.

Kevin McCarthy just lectured us about how Democrats need to put legislation and the country ahead of politics. The same Kevin who said:

 
This seems to be very good information, but it doesn't address what I see as a very large concern. What was Burisma paying Hunter Biden for? What work did he do? What expertise did he have? Why won't he answer questions to that effect? Is it reasonable to believe that his father has never had a conversation with him regarding his work in the Ukraine? I don't believe for a second that anyone on the left would be okay leaving these sorts of questions unanswered if they related to the dealings of a conservative politician. We'd be getting lectures on how their silence on these matters is proof of their guilt.
I wouldn't give a **** if Ted Cruz kid worked for another country.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app
 
What influence did Biden provide? Aside from pushing to get prosecutors who were willing to pursue corruption charges.

As for Shokin's corruption, you don't have to take our word for it. The current Ukrainian president plans to investigate him and other former prosecutors for their supposed corruption. I'm sure we'll learn a lot more about the entire situation in the months to come.
If I Biden was a conservative I am confident you would have no difficulty figuring out why the whole deal smells rotten.
 
This seems to be very good information, but it doesn't address what I see as a very large concern. What was Burisma paying Hunter Biden for? What work did he do? What expertise did he have? Why won't he answer questions to that effect? Is it reasonable to believe that his father has never had a conversation with him regarding his work in the Ukraine? I don't believe for a second that anyone on the left would be okay leaving these sorts of questions unanswered if they related to the dealings of a conservative politician. We'd be getting lectures on how their silence on these matters is proof of their guilt.


I addressed this in a previous post: it's not particularly uncommon for board members to be from lots of different industries because they aren't involved in day to day management of the company. As a result, while your questions make a surface level sense, they aren't reflective of the reality of corporate governance.

Maybe an example would help illustrate this point. I picked a random large company about which I had no knowledge regarding board composition: General Motors.
https://www.gm.com/our-company/leadership/board-of-directors.html

The board includes:

1. A former GM Executive
2. A former chairman of a space exploration company
3. A former officer of Lockheed Martin
4. The former CEO of a Pharmaceuticals corporation.
5. A former investment officer from Harvard
6. Someone from Henry Kissinger's geopolitical consulting firm
7. The chairman of Hewlett Packard
8. A former Wal-Mart officer
9. An executive of a diesel engine company
10. A dean of a canadian business school
11. The CEO of E-bay

I expect similar results if you do spot checks on lots of companies. Some have intuitive connections to the company's core business - many don't.

Rosemont had a relationship with Burisma. Hunter Biden worked for Rosemont. Burisma brought new board members on, including two high profile people from Rosemont. That's the whole story. I agree that board members getting paid as much as they do for their role is pretty much ********. Just one more distortion of the free market. :p
 
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I believe Epstein epsteined Epstein

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So it makes sense to you that Thriller is suggesting that Trump is going to do that to this whistle blower? Are you aware of some sort of evidence that Trump goes around killing people?

And regarding getting Epsteined, it appears to me that no matter how he actually died there was someone who was trying to make it convenient for that to happen. Why did he have a bunk bed in a solitary room? Why wasn't anyone monitoring the most high profile prisoner in the joint? Why weren't his sheets tearaway? Committing suicide is quite a difficult thing to do, and it's nearly impossible if you don't have access to the right raw materials.
 
I addressed this in a previous post: it's not particularly uncommon for board members to be from lots of different industries because they aren't involved in day to day management of the company. As a result, while your questions make a surface level sense, they aren't reflective of the reality of corporate governance.

Maybe an example would help illustrate this point. I picked a random large company about which I had no knowledge regarding board composition: General Motors.
https://www.gm.com/our-company/leadership/board-of-directors.html

The board includes:

1. A former GM Executive
2. A former chairman of a space exploration company
3. A former officer of Lockheed Martin
4. The former CEO of a Pharmaceuticals corporation.
5. A former investment officer from Harvard
6. Someone from Henry Kissinger's geopolitical consulting firm
7. The chairman of Hewlett Packard
8. A former Wal-Mart officer
9. An executive of a diesel engine company
10. A dean of a canadian business school
11. The CEO of E-bay

I expect similar results if you do spot checks on lots of companies. Some have intuitive connections to the company's core business - many don't.

Rosemont had a relationship with Burisma. Hunter Biden worked for Burisma. Burisma brought new board members on, including two high profile people from Rosemont. That's the whole story. I agree that board members getting paid as much as they do for their role is pretty much ********. Just one more distortion of the free market. :p
Nothing in Hunter Biden's past record is in the stratosphere of any of those eleven people you pointed out at GM.
 
Well, Trump wouldn't be releasing the transcripts without a messaging rollout that will trickle down to the GOP faithful, and find its way into the way the media reports on it.

I absolutely expect it to be a repeat of the Barr letter, the Democrats need to get ahead of this by not placing too much emphasis on the "transcript" when it's released as you've mentioned before.
This is so ****ing funny. "Guys, we've got to be careful not to put too much emphasis on the actual basis for this complaint once we (and the whistle blower himself) finally get to see it. Remember, it's all about impeaching this guy no matter what."
 
Nothing in Hunter Biden's past record is in the stratosphere of any of those eleven people you pointed out at GM.


Burisma holdings also isn't exactly as prestigious as General Motors.

Tell you what, YOU pick a company that you think is roughly equivalent and we'll look at the board together. No peeking before you list a name! Fair is fair.
 
Enter this link to find out who your representative is. I’ve called my local representative here in Utah. I doubt he’ll ever vote to impeach but it’s worth a try to take Trump out and cleanse the White House. You can call and email your rep through that site.
 
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