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The official "let's impeach Trump" thread

olden_undercover said:
So let's all agree that Hunter Biden was employed by Burisma under that pretense, for the sake of dialog. It seems perfectly plausible, honestly. A lot of us think pro-Trump folks are falling for some twisty words on the part of Trump & Co., though: That he was on some noble quest to bring down corruption by proving Hunter Biden was employed by Burisma for political purposes, and THAT was his primary and only motivation. There is ample evidence, including statements by witnesses, that there was never a sincere attempt to get Ukraine to actually conduct an investigation at all-- Trump just wanted Ukraine to ANNOUNCE an investigation. And if you consider that, and then ask yourself what Trump's motive could have possibly been, you only land in one place: He wanted to damage Biden politically. If you can present a compelling reason why the president of the United States should otherwise personally involve himself in this sort of issue, to the extent he bypassed regular government channels and used his own personal attorney and cronies to clandestinely liaise between himself and the Ukrainian government, please do so. That's the basis of this entire investigation.
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The former vice president appears to have been selling influence to a very corrupt company through his son. I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree over how much that matters. I do not think you would find this scenario so incomprehensible if Dick Cheney's son was swapped out with Hunter Biden, and Obama swapped out with Trump. You (or at least many on your side of this argument) would probably be praising Obama for shining a light on corruption.
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
This is hysterical. I am really being told that I'm burying my head in the sand by people who suggest that Burisma hired Hunter to add credibility to a struggling brand? Would your opinion change if you discovered that immediately subsequent to Hunter's appointment on the board of Burisma lobbyists and lawmakers associated with Hunter Biden pushed through legislation that resulted in over $50 million American taxpayer dollars going to Ukranian energy assistance which directly benefited Burisma? So far the anti-Trump crowd has shown zero interest in investigating or understanding any of this. Instead they simply tell us that it has been "debunked."
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That's because it has-

https://www.politifact.com/punditfa...of-biden-or-kerry-channeled-us-aid-ukraine-b/
 
This is a breakdown of the entire democratic defense of impeachment. Goes for the media and the Democrats.



Most of you fall for the media narrative EVERY time. It is getting old.
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
This is hysterical. I am really being told that I'm burying my head in the sand by people who suggest that Burisma hired Hunter to add credibility to a struggling brand? Would your opinion change if you discovered that immediately subsequent to Hunter's appointment on the board of Burisma lobbyists and lawmakers associated with Hunter Biden pushed through legislation that resulted in over $50 million American taxpayer dollars going to Ukranian energy assistance which directly benefited Burisma? So far the anti-Trump crowd has shown zero interest in investigating or understanding any of this. Instead they simply tell us that it has been "debunked."
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I mean, I read all the Russian language newspaper articles about it and laid out a detailed timeline of what happened for you months ago.

But, you're right, no interest in investigating or understanding any of this.
 
olden_undercover said:
I realize he's being sarcastic, but Kevin Kruse is actually correct: Nothing that has come out, or will come out for that matter, will cause Trump voters to regret their votes. That ship sailed a loooong time ago.
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You’re right. Here’s a response from a Republican



what do you do when senators don’t care? Or when 30-40 percent of the country has created their own reality because it feels safe and their prejudices are validated?
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
The former vice president appears to have been selling influence to a very corrupt company through his son. I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree over how much that matters. I do not think you would find this scenario so incomprehensible if Dick Cheney's son was swapped out with Hunter Biden, and Obama swapped out with Trump. You (or at least many on your side of this argument) would probably be praising Obama for shining a light on corruption.
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I'm not saying it doesn't matter at all, nor that it's incomprehensible-- if there's enough smoke, I absolutely believe it should be investigated, in fact, and guilty parties brought to justice. What I'm saying is that Trump didn't find it significant in the sense of actually bringing down corruption; he was merely using it as a point of leverage in coercing a foreign government to make a public statement that could damage his political opponent, in order to therefore influence the 2020 elections. Trump supporters don't see it that way, which is baffling to me because it seems as clear as day. Of course, I'm seeing it from the perspective of someone who did not vote for/does not support Trump, and I recognize that.

Incidentally, you might already know Ukraine actually decided to investigate Burisma in September (independent of Trump's involvement via Guliani), with the intent of exposing and prosecuting corruption within their own country. Personally, I will be very interested to see if Hunter Biden's name is brought up again, but as it stands, current Ukrainian government officials largely respect Joe Biden:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/ukraine-likely-to-reopen-probe-of-hunter-biden-firm-sources?ref=scroll

"A major part of the Trump narrative is that in 2016 then-Vice President Biden pressed for the resignation of Shokhin in order to protect his son. That is not the way people in Ukraine remember things. Lutsenko’s reputation for corruption was infamous, and Biden supported the efforts of Ukraine’s reformers to be rid of him.

According to [Valentin Nalyvaichenko, former head of Ukraine’s domestic intelligence agency and current member of Ukraine’s parliament], Lutsenko needs to be investigated further, not least because he has been in communication with Trump’s agents 'for vindictive purposes.'

Nalyvaichenko said Ukraine should also be interested in a thorough investigation into the 'black ledger' that recorded slush-fund payments to Trump’s former campaign manager, Paul Manafort.

'As it turns out, nobody really investigated the case properly,' Nalyvaichenko said. 'Officials close to former President Petro Poroshenko mentioned two names of the U.S. citizens. One was Paul Manafort, who lost his job as Trump campaign manager, the other, Larry King, was never talked about again.'”

It's an ironic twist, if I'm Donald Trump: I wanted an announcement from Ukraine that they were going to investigate Joe Biden, with the 'incentive' of withheld military aid and a potential Oval Office visit. What I got was a broad domestic Ukrainian investigation into corruption that includes Burisma, and an expeditious release of the foreign aid I had withheld because my plot was called out by a whistleblower. Ukraine's investigation so far only further implicates none other than Paul Manafort, and this article indicates there is interest is digging into communications between Lutsenko and other Trump operatives. Zelenskyy has very shrewdly outplayed Trump.
 
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