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The official "let's impeach Trump" thread

Red said:
The video Democrats played on day one of the impeachment trial:

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A primary defense I've heard from Trump supporters is that all he did was tell his supporters to "fight" just like so many other politicians have done.

NO!

That's not what Trump did. What Trump did was falsely and baselessly claim that the election was fraudulent, that it had been "stolen" and that people needed to ACT in order to protect and even to save our democracy from evil forces.

That's not the same as saying "we'll keep fighting for what we believe in" that's creating a fake crisis and painting it as a last ditch effort to save the United States of America. People die for the U.S.. Many of us would be willing to die to save the U.S. from an existential threat. So Trump didn't say, "keep up the fight." Trump said either you act now and fight this stolen election by evil doers or America is finished.

If Trump was telling the truth then the people who stormed the capitol were 100% justified. I would have been right there with them.

But it was a LIE! It was a self-serving fantasy that Trump promoted
 
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colton said:
I'm truly sorry that you apparently like such a despicable man.
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When Sam Rich came home from Spain after WWII, he was influential in Salt Lake City. Favored the hope the UN promised.

By the early 1960s almost all the LDS leadership, and the community leading heads of KSL and Disney News (mean that) were singing his tunes.

However, the influence of William J. Fulbright and the campaign to have the US step back in the world leadership, to achieve the long-range goal of not becoming the primary target of worldwide unrest (the thesis of "The Arrogance of Power"...... basically what Great Britain did in the 1920s while pushing the League of Nations.....is just in reality an abdication of the whole Magna Carta/US Bill of Rights push for human liberty.

Everything you claim to hate by hating Trump, you are endorsing as Xi steps up.

All around the world, dictators are pushing back on all the progress for human rights.

Trump's MAGA rhetoric was offensive to the new fascists.

I think Sam Rich would by now be seeing the light, and endorse once again the US leadership and American Exceptionalism because the fundamental issue is not about Trump or Xi , or the mega billionaire market dominance. It's about actual human liberty and actual decent human rights.

Trump put himself in front of the malcontents, but whatever you think of Trump, the people who are turning away from the growing reality of fascism worldwide are in the right.

I think the decision to push the control of media/social media/top-down government is having a epoch-ending mass rejection of progressivism. Cranking up the rhetoric or not fixing the vote/election issues is not a viable path.

Pretty much, the UN is done. Not a single nation on planet earth has a government the people want. As a hodgepodge of fascists, they're driving the world off a cliff..

The next solution people will actually believe in will be Jesus.

Just sayin'.
 
babe said:
Everything you claim to hate by hating Trump, you are endorsing as Xi steps up.

All around the world, dictators are pushing back on all the progress for human rights.
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I agree we need to push back against China, and Biden has said as much himself. I agree that there is pressure against human rights, such as the removal of children from their undocumented parents in the US.

babe said:
Trump's MAGA rhetoric was offensive to the new fascists.
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The fascists of the world loved Trump.
 
Gameface said:
A primary defense I've heard from Trump supporters is that all he did was tell his supporters to "fight" just like so many other politicians have done.

NO!

That's not what Trump did. What Trump did was falsely and baselessly claim that the election was fraudulent, that it had been "stolen" and that people needed to ACT in order to protect and even to save our democracy from evil forces.

That's not the same as saying "we'll keep fighting for what we believe in" that's creating a fake crisis and painting it as a last ditch effort to save the United States of America. People die for the U.S.. Many of us would be willing to die to save the U.S. from an existential threat. So Trump didn't say, "keep up the fight." Trump said either you act now and fight this stolen election by evil doers or America is finished.

If Trump was telling the truth then the people who stormed the capitol were 100% justified. I would have been right there with them.

But it was a LIE! It was a self-serving fantasy that Trump promoted
Click to expand...

I didn't see any real urgency in his remarks. He's been talking like that, knowing he's on the outside of real power, all through his campaign. That's why he did his campaign doing multiple rallies every day for weeks. Maybe he thought he could get enough votes to overcome the cheating/steal he knew, and said was going on, but he didn't have a path to stop it.

Basically, he was trying to hang on the crowd.

I looked carefully at the available videos of the crowd at the speech and at the capitol. I saw inciters there in both places.

The FBI....... and I'm amazed at that.....,and the investigations into the arrested participants....... are showing that the actual violence was pre-planned, but there is so far no connection of that to Trump. Weeks in advance, authorities knew about the plans, and monitored the plans....... but did nothing.

Trump was not told. No one has come forward yet to say "We told Trump". Members of House were told, and were telling each other.

Trump's idea of trying to get the election at the electoral college depended on getting institutional support, some court victory he never got. People like Barr and even Pence were not "In" on that cause. In the end he knew even Mike Lee wasn't "In", and the folks who were concerned about the count, like Cruz, were only going to ask for a delay, to set up an independent commission to evaluate the vote issues.

No one thought Trump and his supporters were just going to walk over to the Capitol and take over the country.

Trump said he would "be there too", but his motor cade went the other way.

I wouldn't have been there if I believed it was the only way to save human liberty. Saying you'd be there if you believed it just sounds a bit...... well..... unhinged.

Our country has been owned by the interests for a damn long time already. Nothing has changed with Biden's victory over Trump. Trump didn't get the institutional support that was and is necessary to lead this country, but he got in front of a whole damn lot of folks who aren't happy with the way things are.

Almost all Trump supporters went home from the speech. The violence started even before Trump said "fight". Even Mark Levin is cutting people off the air if they get on his show with some false pretense comment then say it was Antifa or BLM. Those organizations are not just unhinged, they are expertly managed, which proves something more than an organic grass roots program. There is no known connection we can prove to those organizations for the violence at the capitol.

Organizations with claimed conservative ideals also had no organized presence. The plans for violence were developed through Facebook, and sucked in some of the right-wing nutjobs, but they used ages old political agitator tactics. Well, right wing crazies generally don'[t have that kind of strategy. They are ignoramuses who don't read the news, let alone serious works on political strategies. It was a sucker job on the right, and it exploited Chump Trump's naivete. It was an organized tactical project to discredit Trump.

I wasn't smart enough to see it coming. Trump didn't see it coming.

But the political advantage is unraveling as more comes out day by day from the investigations. In the end, this project will become a huge public failure, and people will reject it.

Time to just settle in for solving the real problems we have.
 
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