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The *OFFICIAL* Russia Is About To Invade Ukraine Thread

I desperately want to believe this.

It seems true.

But what happens when Ukrainian cities start falling?

I can't get too invested in such a crazy thought.

Mariupol will be interesting, the Ukrainian's will basically have to fight until the bitter end, the challenge will be to continue to supply them. Even if they can breakout they will be pounded in the open by Russian airpower and mechanized units. That said how long can the Russian maintain a siege? They should look at the way the 9th Division defended Tobruk, constant and aggressive patrols of Russian positions to suppress the initiative and demoralise the enemy.
 
A greater nuclear power is like saying "Hah. he has a 9mm pointed at my head, well I have a .357 pointed at his head, so I have nothing to worry about."

Seconds later two people have their brains splattered against the walls. No one is laughing anymore.
When the smart thing is to be the first one to pull the trigger in that scenario. Maybe it is more like we each have a button that can blow up a dam directly above each other's little village. Sure you have some dynamite to blow up mine, but as soon as I hear it go off, I have a massive amount of C4 to blow yours up next. We all die, but a bit slower and with time to respond. But either way the dam breaks and everyone is washed away.

I still think that the world knows what would happen in a global nuclear event and I really thing that if Putin did go into Ukraine with a nuke, no one would respond in kind, knowing where it would lead. It might be enough to really mobilize NATO, beyond what they have so far, and maybe to bring the full power of the US military complex into the mix, but I am still not sure. I think we have had general peace for so long, and there is enough tribalism that people are generally saying "it's not my neighbor so I am staying out of it".

But if the US decided to make it a full-scale war, Russia would not stand a chance at this point. And then Putin would absolutely resort to nukes. So this is a very weird situation. Hopefully with the support they are getting, and the moderate military help, Ukraine can withstand the onslaught. Because if it really got heated who knows where it would all end up. This could be the beginnings of WWIII. I mean, how many people read the news about Archduke Ferdinand and immediately said "welp, here goes a world war"?
 
I desperately want to believe this.

It seems true.

But what happens when Ukrainian cities start falling?

I can't get too invested in such a crazy thought.
Frankly it is garbage. Russia has superior force, they just went into this disorganized with dreams of Russian blitzkriegs dancing in their heads. When they ran into actual staunch defense, it caught them off guard. Now they have but to reorganize and bring a larger force to bear. In a drawn out conflict Ukraine does not have the numbers to withstand long.
 
But what happens when Ukrainian cities start falling?
When (if) those cities fall, all provisions are seized by the invading Russian forces, the residents gather in town squares to boldly waive Ukrainian flags, shout at the invaders to go home until they are violently dispersed, and the Ukrainian army goes to work attacking entrenched positions around the city in the effort to win it back. When a Ukrainian city falls, there is no reason to believe it won't be exactly like the Russian occupied city of Kherson.

 
Mariupol will be interesting, the Ukrainian's will basically have to fight until the bitter end
If anywhere in Ukraine will fight to the bitter end, even if there is nothing left but rubble, it will be Mariupol. When Putin claimed this invasion was to de-nazi Ukraine, it was Mariupol he was referring to. Mariupol is being fiercely defended by the Azov Battalion,and they are straight up nationalist, socialist, white supremacist nazis who wear patches from the WWII German SS. Everything around Mariupol is now Russian controlled but Mariupol itself has still not fallen.

IMG_2876.jpg
 
Frankly it is garbage. Russia has superior force, they just went into this disorganized with dreams of Russian blitzkriegs dancing in their heads. When they ran into actual staunch defense, it caught them off guard. Now they have but to reorganize and bring a larger force to bear. In a drawn out conflict Ukraine does not have the numbers to withstand long.
I think this is completely and totally wrong. First, it isn't about having superior force but being able to bring superior force to a battle. It is about logistics and Russia doesn't have it. They don't have enough trucks and many of the ones they do have were stuck in a convoy north of Kyiv. Russia relies heavily on rail to transport its military hardware and troops but within hours the Ukrainians blew up all the rail lines leading in to Ukraine. Now saboteurs have started blowing up rail lines in Belarus. Russia can't even fly in troops and supplies because they don't have air superiority over Ukraine. The only area Russia seems able to get any supplies to is the southern area because they still have infrastructure into Crimea. On the other side, the western world is supplying the Ukrainians and there are a lot more Ukrainians than Russians in Ukraine.

Russia is going to get pushed back. The question is one of what happens after Russians get pushed out of Ukraine. When the Russian are pushed out of Ukraine, will Putin nuke Ukraine to "win"? It is probably best for everyone that a diplomatic solution is achieved before we get to that point.
 
At some point, and I don't know when, Putin is going to get more impatient and you can expect more use of hypersonic missiles to cripple non-military targets and potentially chemical weapons.

It's only a matter of time and if you're unlucky enough to be caught in the mire.
 
If anywhere in Ukraine will fight to the bitter end, even if there is nothing left but rubble, it will be Mariupol. When Putin claimed this invasion was to de-nazi Ukraine, it was Mariupol he was referring to. Mariupol is being fiercely defended by the Azov Battalion,and they are straight up nationalist, socialist, white supremacist nazis who wear patches from the WWII German SS. Everything around Mariupol is now Russian controlled but Mariupol itself has still not fallen.

IMG_2876.jpg

The Azoz brigade has about 400 members hardly the beginning of the 4th Reich. If the Marines in Mariupol continue to hold this will get interesting.
 
Frankly it is garbage. Russia has superior force, they just went into this disorganized with dreams of Russian blitzkriegs dancing in their heads. When they ran into actual staunch defense, it caught them off guard. Now they have but to reorganize and bring a larger force to bear. In a drawn out conflict Ukraine does not have the numbers to withstand long.

Dont bet on it seen reports tonight of counter attacks around Kiev with the Ukrainians fighting their way out of the encirclement. (Which the Russians haven't actually managed yet.)

If they can keep pushing them back, russian morale may collapse rapidly.
 
The Azoz brigade has about 400 members hardly the beginning of the 4th Reich. If the Marines in Mariupol continue to hold this will get interesting.
I agree that they are not the beginning of the 4th Reich but only that they've been fighting Russians to keep Mariupol part of Ukraine since 2014 when Russian-backed separatists took control of the city and the Azov Battalion formed to take the city back. I don't see them giving up the fight for Mariupol. I think they will fight, as you said, until the bitter end. Nazis and Russians don't seem too fond of each other.
 
Dont bet on it seen reports tonight of counter attacks around Kiev with the Ukrainians fighting their way out of the encirclement. (Which the Russians haven't actually managed yet.)

If they can keep pushing them back, russian morale may collapse rapidly.
I think that is kind of the only hope, that they lose morale. If Putin has his way he will continue to push. Frankly they haven't really engaged with the full force of their military yet, they have about 900k total troops with 2 mill reservists, and they have only deployed 150k-ish in the front and have only engaged maybe 1/5 of their arsenal. As Al stated, logistics is the concern for them now. If they can figure out how to support their troops in the field and can deploy even half of their current enlisted force with 1/2 of their arsenal this will take a different turn. The question comes, at what point is Putin willing to escalate to move long-distance means of attack, including potentially low-yield nuclear attacks. How crazy is he? Remains to be seen, it would appear.

Here is an interesting discussion around nukes in general and low-yield in particular.


Especially worrisome is the possibility that the war could escalate to the use of nuclear weapons. By increasing the alert level of Russian nuclear forces, Putin increases the risk of nuclear use through miscalculation or accident in the fog of war. In the worst scenario, if the war is going badly, Putin could reach for a tactical nuclear weapon out of desperation. While this is still unlikely, the risk is not zero. And increasing that risk is unacceptable. Although innumerable nuclear weapons have been tested over the years, not one has been used in warfare (or terrorism) since 1945. The 77-year-old tradition of nuclear nonuse—the nuclear taboo—is the single most important accomplishment of the nuclear age. It is a primary obligation of leaders today to make sure nuclear weapons are never used again. Putin and Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov should stop threatening nuclear weapons. Other leaders should express shock and outrage, and make it clear that nuclear threats are irresponsible and unacceptable.

Not sure if expressing shock and outrage is enough to deter their use.
 
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