We trust kids barely out of highschool with this decision. Keep in mind things like this are currently 2% of police work.
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Tough Day To Be In Law Enforcement
- Thread starter JazzGal
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We trust kids barely out of highschool with this decision. Keep in mind things like this are currently 2% of police work.
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Police work is mostly administrative. Moving non-violent people through the processes, filling out reports, and processing bodies.
The fact that these types of interactions are actually rare in the grand scheme of their work, and that black people are taking the brunt of it all, only further speaks to how messed up policing is in this country. Tear it down and rebuild.
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The fact that these types of interactions are actually rare in the grand scheme of their work, and that black people are taking the brunt of it all, only further speaks to how messed up policing is in this country. Tear it down and rebuild.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
You're posting exactly what I think the protocols would provide... Clarity. There would be a way the officers are expected to act (predictability) and a way the civilian is expected to respond (predictability). When either party deviates from the "dance routine" it provides clarity when assessing what led to the encounter going awry.
I could write a mini book on this, and maybe I'll get into more detail, but these are issues I have devoted a lot of thought to since my adolescence. I have always advocated for the police having classifications for the level of encounter they are initiating (they sort of already do, but the standards are blurry, but they have "felony warrant" ect. that determines how they act in the beginning of an encounter) which determines their set of protocols. The public needs to be educated in what is required of them by law when involved with the police. Are they the "subject" of the encounter, a "bystander," an "associate," a "witness," a "victim," ect.. This partially determines how they will be treated by the police and what their obligations are. The "level" of the encounter can change, a speeding ticket, jaywalking, the police should be casual and respectful. If the subject does not cooperate the police very clearly verbalize to the subject that the situation is now at an elevated level. This should have a clear meaning to the subject since the public should be educated on this. But through all this the police should be using de-escalation techniques. If the subject does not respond positively to de-escalation the police should inform them that they are entering a "control of hostility" phase. That doesn't mean they get physical or use force. It means they are requesting additional support and they actually back off a little. Once the police are fully able to "control hostility" by cutting off the subjects ability to act violently in a way that would be threatening then the police need to be patient. The penalties and repercussions of forcing these actions by the police should be mounting at this point. If the subject ever acts overtly violent and threatens injury the police should be prepared to use non-lethal or less than lethal means to subdue them. If that is not an option and the person is posing a real and present danger, in fact, to anyone else, the police should use potentially lethal force to immediately stop the threat.
This would not be some hazy man I don't remember my training 19 months ago type of thing. This should be the way our police force is constructed and operated 24/7.
Next up we can talk about a phrase I came up with as a teen that others in this thread have mentioned using different words. But I have long thought that "selective law enforcement" is an extremely significant problem. Police should only be enforcing laws when necessary. But it starts way before the police. There should only be laws that are necessary to be enforced ALWAYS. If a law is violated it should require enforcement. Not a negotiation with a police officer. Police should not have to use any judgement at all in enforcing the law. That starts by eliminating the vast majority of petty infractions that give law enforcement an excuse to interfere in your activities, which they can later decide to charge you with or not based on how much they like you or your story.
Anyway, I don't want to spend all night on this.
Keefe
Well-Known Member
It obviously depends on the situation, but generally speaking, Doug Williams wrote a very touching piece for espn recently about this. In it, he mentions how he taught his son at a very young age that if he is ever pulled over, he is to be completely compliant and say “yes, sir and no, sir.” If I was black, I’d feel the same for my son or myself. As much as it might even piss me off, my life’s worth a lot more than my pride or ego.
Engorged On Unborn Gore
Well-Known Member
I agree that it’s smarter to just comply. But the George Floyd example is just the latest in a mountain of wrongs that could ultimately end up destroying us.
Killing people in the service of capital, under a narrative that it is in the service of the community, is a recipe for the next civil war.
A fundamental overhaul of their profession is essential for this country to survive.
Keefe
Well-Known Member
I agree.
Archie Moses
Well-Known Member
I love this man.
Archie Moses
Well-Known Member
Listen to the whole song. So good. The Menzingers are poets.]
JimLes
Well-Known Member
Why are methheads being arrested in the first place? Is it because they're an actual threat to others or because they're a threat to "common decency?"
As @Engorged On Unborn Gore points out, the idea and purpose of modern police is based on protecting private property of those who own capital. Look no further than trespassing or loitering laws. What I would add to that is that they also simultaneously exist to protect puritanical social mores, often those that said owners of capital pay lip services to.
We then get not only a situation in which addiction and/or homelessness is treated as a moral degeneracy that needs to be fixed with force, but also an absolutely unnecessary focus of police forces on this. Those of you living in large cities like me know the sheer amount of effort and resources spent on this. Think for a second why public drunkenness is a an offence to begin with. Or disorderly conduct. Or loitering. Or disturbing the peace. Or a woman walking down the street topless. They have nothing to do with actual danger posed to the public, but the danger to some puritanical morality. Of course, the logical culmination of this attitude are the stop and identify laws, which are at its core no different than apartheid pass laws in what is really a fairly recent South Africa. The idea that you need a valid reason to be in a public place, and the police are going to determine the validity of that reason.
Contrary to what prissy suburbanites think, drug addicts pose very little danger to the general public. They're a danger to themselves, and occasionally to others of their ilk. Why do we have police officers arresting people who are drunk or high in public if they are not a danger to others. Other than it offends squares? If police stopped making it their business to harass addicts or the homeless(and that's very easy to legislate), the situations such as the one you describe would become incredibly rare.
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
Did Trump just defund Tulsa’s police???
gandalfe
Well-Known Member
A few thoughts I have had on where I would like us to go:
- There needs to be more $$ going to social services and less to police. If you want to put them in the same department, that's fine, but we need to stop sending cops out to enforce mental health and social issues.
- Cops shouldn't carry guns. I would be fine if they are biometrically locked in their vehicles - the cop has to hit his thumbprint to get it out. But half the problem is that cops automatically reach for their gun like a magic wand.
- Body cams mandatory. Stiff penalties for removing or interfering with it. You wear the uniform, the camera comes with it. It automatically backs it up to a secure server.
Archie Moses
Well-Known Member
I mean, I like the idea that people shouldn't be arrested for doing drugs but if you know anything about meth, the vast majority of people arrested for meth aren't being arrested for being in possession of meth. They're being arrested for breaking other laws and doing ****ing insane things.
JimLes
Well-Known Member
I don't generally associate with meth addicts, but my wife worked with them for almost a decade as a social worker. I know enough not to buy into stereotypes. She was never attacked by any client, she never had one client seriously hurt another(all her clients lived in one building, btw), and other than some minor property damage, they generally just ruined their own lives. Oh, there was the one client who climbed a crane at a construction site while high on meth, but he didn't hurt anyone and did not fight the cops when they showed up. Another example of a situation where there was no need to arrest the person at all.
https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/768973891984
Archie Moses
Well-Known Member
I was definitely being stereotypical and it was said tongue-in-cheek. Most meth addicts who make the news seem like they're from Florida.
JimLes
Well-Known Member
Everything that is wrong and terrible happens in Florida. Including this alleged end of the NBA season.
Archie Moses
Well-Known Member
It definitely makes me cringe. It's repulsive and embarrassing and a list of other words I can think of. That said, wouldn't it be nice if the individuals responsible were blamed and not an entire group of people based off of skin color?
Like, I don't wanna be associated with assholes like that.
Are we listening yet?
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Holy ..... That's some straight-up 'Mississippi Burning' type ****.
What happened in those two cases where people were found hanging from trees a couple weeks ago?
What happened in those two cases where people were found hanging from trees a couple weeks ago?
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