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Trade Rumors Involving the Jazz

Trade Mitchell while his value is at its highest.

Mitchell for Trent Jr, OG, and Precious plus picks. We know have the best defense in the NBA by a lot and the offense doesn't suffer much. We also move Conley and possibly others. Trent is one of the best guard defenders in the NBA. OG is a great defender and Precious has a solid upside.

Since that has almost 0 chance then we 100% have to move Gobert unless Mitchell has told the FO he wants to stay and he wants Gobert here.

Sadly the reality is we wont trade anything but ****** fringe moves.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
No it wasn’t… it was solid. 4/2023 1st, Barnes/Davion is totally fair.
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I think #4 is being overrated here. The expected value on that pick is not why people think of when they think top 5 pick. 2023 is likely to be a mid round first….again people need to use understand the EV on that pick.

Davion isn’t a great prospect. Was bad at age 23 which makes him closer to a second draft type of guy. Barnes is a nice player, but it’s Donovan freaking Mitchell. At least take the Knicks package at this point. This trade honestly makes me want to barf.
 
KqWIN said:
I think #4 is being overrated here. The expected value on that pick is not why people think of when they think top 5 pick. 2023 is likely to be a mid round first….again people need to use understand the EV on that pick.

Davion isn’t a great prospect. Was bad at age 23 which makes him closer to a second draft type of guy. Barnes is a nice player, but it’s Donovan freaking Mitchell. At least take the Knicks package at this point. This trade honestly makes me want to barf.
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I’m not sure any of this is fact based at all… it’s like completely your opinion. Ivey is a great prospect… if not him there will be guys drafted in that range that are worth a top 5 pick. 2023 is far from guaranteed to be a mid first. You really think that’s a playoff team adding Donovan. They might be the worst defense in the league. West is gonna be a blood bath. Davion isn’t the highest upside guy but if the shot straightens out he will be at very least a great third guard or a low end starter. You can easily flip Barnes for another first… how is that HORRID? It’s only horrid when you place bad assumptions on it.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I’m not sure any of this is fact based at all… it’s like completely your opinion. Ivey is a great prospect… if not him there will be guys drafted in that range that are worth a top 5 pick. 2023 is far from guaranteed to be a mid first. You really think that’s a playoff team adding Donovan. They might be the worst defense in the league. West is gonna be a blood bath. Davion isn’t the highest upside guy but if the shot straightens out he will be at very least a great third guard or a low end starter. You can easily flip Barnes for another first… how is that HORRID? It’s only horrid when you place bad assumptions on it.
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Why do you feel the need to say that I just made that up based on opinion? The expected value of draft picks is well written on and we’ll researched. You know what, I’m just going to say that your opinion is not fact based at all. It’s a zero meaning argument. Go ahead do the 5 second google search if you want to know what the median #4 pick is and we can talk about whose expectations are fact based. Bring me the facts if you’re going to get on my *** about using my “opinion”.

Even if you assumed Donovan Mitchell brought no upgrade to the Kings and we’re sitting at the #7 pick, go head and tell me you’re happy with that median outcome. But that’s not the assumption I’m making. I actually think Donovan Mitchell will help that team win more games.

There are so many players who would be good if only their shot straightened out. Fact is, Davion was very bad as 23 year old player and 23 year old players who are bad are not likely to become solid starters. And no, this wasn’t made up opinion. It’s a fact that Davion was bad last year.

This trade might be good, but only if you use a very optimistic outlook on things. Even if you think picks are the greatest thing in the world, you’re taking the Knicks picks instead.
 
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KqWIN said:
Why do you feel the need to say that I just made that up based on opinion? The expected value of draft picks is well written on and we’ll researched. You know what, I’m just going to say that your opinion is not fact based at all. It’s a zero meaning argument. Go ahead do the 5 second google search if you want to know what the median #4 pick is and we can talk about whose expectations are fact based. Bring me the facts if you’re going to get on my *** about using my “opinion”.

Even if you assumed Donovan Mitchell brought no upgrade to the Kings and we’re sitting at the #7 pick, go head and tell me you’re happy with that median outcome. But that’s not the assumption I’m making. I actually think Donovan Mitchell will help that team win more games.

There are so many players who would be good if only their shot straightened out. Fact is, Davion was very bad as 23 year old player and 23 year old players who are bad are not likely to become solid starters. And no, this wasn’t made up opinion. It’s a fact that Davion was bad last year.

This trade might be good, but only if you use a very optimistic outlook on things. Even if you think picks are the greatest thing in the world, you’re taking the Knicks picks instead.
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Opinions was bad word choice… it’s more pessimistic assumptions. When you trade a star you often get a mystery bag of stuff. If you take the NY package for example and assume every pick you get is going to be a mid first rounder then getting 4 of those is pretty meh. I can also just make bad assumptions that Donovan’s ankle problems are a sign he is going to be another injury plagued small guard and you should trade him now.

Whether the EV of #4 is over rated or not is not super relevant. It’s VALUABLE! Say you didn’t love the EV of Ivey… you could flip that pick to NY and get at a min #11 and their pick next year… more likely could get #11, 2023 1st, Quickley, and the Dallas pick they own. So now you have probably the better parts of the NY package you claim is better.

Barnes can easily get you a mid first from Atlanta, Chicago, or Minny.

Davion may not shoot straight… but he has an elite nba skill. Marcus Smart never really shot straight… he’s improved but he’s made it work. Davion is not as diverse of a defender as Smart but he’s very good. Saying a guy might improve his shooting a little is not a wild assumption… lots of guys have done it… even when they weren’t 19. The difference with Davion is he is a 4-5% bump in 3 point shooting from being a decent starter. He still has 3 years on a rookie deal to figure it out. This isn’t like assuming BS will shoot. This is saying a rookie will adjust to a three point line and hopefully hit around 35%… something a bunch of guys have done. Even if he doesn’t he can be a solid 6/7th man. He’s not the equivalent of a second rounder either way lol.

Getting the 7th slot next year (something more likely than the pick being in the mid first round) gives you a 30%+ shot at a top 4 pick… a 7.5% shot at #1. Even staying at 7 you’d have a shot at some all star talent.

Trading Donovan for a couple shots at getting AS talent and a few mid first round fliers is not HORRID. It’s kinda what you get when trading an all star. And the Kings package can be broken up to get the best parts of the Knicks package and betting against the Kings has an EV of pretty ****ing good.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Opinions was bad word choice… it’s more pessimistic assumptions. When you trade a star you often get a mystery bag of stuff. If you take the NY package for example and assume every pick you get is going to be a mid first rounder then getting 4 of those is pretty meh. I can also just make bad assumptions that Donovan’s ankle problems are a sign he is going to be another injury plagued small guard and you should trade him now.

Whether the EV of #4 is over rated or not is not super relevant. It’s VALUABLE! Say you didn’t love the EV of Ivey… you could flip that pick to NY and get at a min #11 and their pick next year… more likely could get #11, 2023 1st, Quickley, and the Dallas pick they own. So now you have probably the better parts of the NY package you claim is better.

Barnes can easily get you a mid first from Atlanta, Chicago, or Minny.

Davion may not shoot straight… but he has an elite nba skill. Marcus Smart never really shot straight… he’s improved but he’s made it work. Davion is not as diverse of a defender as Smart but he’s very good. Saying a guy might improve his shooting a little is not a wild assumption… lots of guys have done it… even when they weren’t 19. The difference with Davion is he is a 4-5% bump in 3 point shooting from being a decent starter. He still has 3 years on a rookie deal to figure it out. This isn’t like assuming BS will shoot. This is saying a rookie will adjust to a three point line and hopefully hit around 35%… something a bunch of guys have done. Even if he doesn’t he can be a solid 6/7th man. He’s not the equivalent of a second rounder either way lol.

Getting the 7th slot next year (something more likely than the pick being in the mid first round) gives you a 30%+ shot at a top 4 pick… a 7.5% shot at #1. Even staying at 7 you’d have a shot at some all star talent.

Trading Donovan for a couple shots at getting AS talent and a few mid first round fliers is not HORRID. It’s kinda what you get when trading an all star. And the Kings package can be broken up to get the best parts of the Knicks package and betting against the Kings has an EV of pretty ****ing good.
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Plus it would be very gratifying to see Mitchell fail on the Kings
 
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