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Transgender and sports

Eminence said:
What I'm digging for here is at what % people think we would see a negative effect on athletic participation from AFAB individuals .
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So, this is the a fourth grader who refuses to practice sprinting because she might face a transgender girl in high school? A high school senior whose been practicing all her life, but gives up rather than compete against one or two people?

My daughter was a thrower. Every year, girls from the same 3-4 schools would win the competitions, because they had better athletic programs. She didn't give up throwing in high school. As a college sophomore, she has stopped because she is pre-vet, and calculus/organic chemistry takes priority over sports.
 
One Brow said:
So, this is the a fourth grader who refuses to practice sprinting because she might face a transgender girl in high school? A high school senior whose been practicing all her life, but gives up rather than compete against one or two people?

My daughter was a thrower. Every year, girls from the same 3-4 schools would win the competitions, because they had better athletic programs. She didn't give up throwing in high school. As a college sophomore, she has stopped because she is pre-vet, and calculus/organic chemistry takes priority over sports.
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Closer to the 1st than the 2nd, but elementary kids don't think about high school competition, they dream about being president or MVP or winning a Grammy or whatever.
 
Eminence said:
One thing I would appreciate clarification from those in favor of trans individuals competing - do you mean all trans individuals or trans individuals who've transitioned in a certain way (mainly hormonally)?
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I would still like this answered. Some of my thoughts:

If the first - well I applaud your logical consistency, but I disagree, I think there's a clear athletic advantage and doing so would notably compromise the point of womens athletics.

If the second - well I'm struggling to see how setting your bar of what qualifies a person for a womens league other than their own opinion of their gender isn't just as arbitrary and cruel as my setting it at AFAB individuals. You've essentially decided for yourself which trans people are 'really' the gender they identify with and so are allowed to compete. I do recognize my bar is arbitrary and hurtful to trans individuals - don't doubt I've debated this back and forth with myself and in discussions with my spouse.
 
Eminence said:
I would still like this answered. Some of my thoughts:

If the first - well I applaud your logical consistency, but I disagree, I think there's a clear athletic advantage and doing so would notably compromise the point of womens athletics.

If the second - well I'm struggling to see how setting your bar of what qualifies a person for a womens league other than their own opinion of their gender isn't just as arbitrary and cruel as my setting it at AFAB individuals. You've essentially decided for yourself which trans people are 'really' the gender they identify with and so are allowed to compete. I do recognize my bar is arbitrary and hurtful to trans individuals - don't doubt I've debated this back and forth with myself and in discussions with my spouse.
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There was a thread that covered this and your question a few years ago I believe @Jason locked because (tbh, I can't remember why.)

I shared a lot of thoughts and learned a lot from @Gameface .

Interested in why that thread was locked.
 
I think most of the issues have been discussed here and I'm easily of the opinion its a non issue and always will be. There are far far bigger issues in sports than this. Even at the core of having an advantage due to male puberty is also an issue for all sports regardless. Are people complaining about fairness when one kid hits puberty before another and gains a huge advantage? No, because sports and life have never been fair. Life is hard enough for trans people if they can win something that's ultimately pointless such as winning a high school sports competition and it makes them feel a little better, great. If your daughter losses to someone they think has some advantage and it isn't fair then it's a good chance to teach them a life lesson.

Also plenty of women are strong and good athletes due to genetic advantages, even over plenty of men.

If we ever have people transitioning just to compete and are consistently dominating at multiple levels then we can figure something else out, but that's never going to happen.
 
Archie Moses said:
There was a thread that covered this and your question a few years ago I believe @Jason locked because (tbh, I can't remember why.)

I shared a lot of thoughts and learned a lot from @Gameface .

Interested in why that thread was locked.
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Well, partially because I got heated and acted inappropriately.
 
Gameface said:
Well, partially because I got heated and acted inappropriately.
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How dare you get heated/emotional about it. You must be a terrible person you hack.


In all seriousness though, I think people can learn a lot from you, your posts and your reactions (shh!!) make you human.

From what I remember, you as a father of a trans, as real and understanding as one can be. Yeah, you have your emotional reactions and opinions, but that's why I love...err...respect you.

*fist bump*
 
Archie Moses said:
How dare you get heated/emotional about it. You must be a terrible person you hack.


In all seriousness though, I think people can learn a lot from you, your posts and your reactions (shh!!) make you human.

From what I remember, you as a father of a trans, as real and understanding as one can be. Yeah, you have your emotional reactions and opinions, but that's why I love...err...respect you.

*fist bump*
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Well I'm doing my best in this thread and it has been a really good thread so far.
 
Eminence said:
I would still like this answered.
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I think every league should be able to answer this for themselves, or possibly every state. It requires a knowledge of sports medicine I know is beyond me.

For example, there could be different answers in football, wrestling, and running, due to the difference in the types of contact expected.
 
Let's see if I understand @Saint Cy of JFC rantings:

-hE DOESNT GIVE A **** AT ALL ABOUT ONE GROUP OF PEOPLE
-hE ONLY CARES ABOUT ANOTHER GROUP
-hE COULDN'T CARE LESS ABOUT WOMENS SPORTS, OR ANY ATTEMPT AT CREATING A COMPETITIVE ENVIRONMENT. yET HIS OPINION ON THE TOPIC IS IMPORTANT AND IF YOU DISAGREE YOU ARE TRANSPHOBE.

Sounds about as rational as his JF nonsense. I guess being the most skipped over, irrelevant poster in that forum is no longer enough.
 
gandalfe said:
How would she know the experience of someone who is transitioning as a teenager?
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I think she had a vastly different experience than what you're assuming.

She's said she's always felt like a woman and never transitioned until when she grew enough confidence to.

Hot take here:

While I support trans, I don't support trans in sporting events. As small as it is, I still don't.

That does not equate to me being transphobic.

If it does, I'm all ears.
 
I said pretty much the same thing earlier in this thread but I don't think sports in public schools is there so that we can determine who the best athlete is and give those athletes they opportunity to win and others the opportunity to lose. I think the reason we have sports in out public schools is to help people learn how to compete (win or lose), how to work hard, how to set and achieve personal goals, how to have good sportsmanship.

So the question I'd start with is why would we want to exclude people from learning those skills? If there are certain people who don't need and/or are not allowed to learn those valuable life skills then I don't think we need school sports at all. School sports shouldn't be about winning and losing in and of itself, so the idea that it's unfair for some people to compete is not a significant issue in my opinion so long as all people who participate have the opportunity to learn the things that competitive sports can teach them.

Okay, so that out of the way... College sports is a business, not a character building life lesson endeavor. At that level I am fine with certain types of exclusions. I'm also fine with professional sports handling the issue however they see fit.

I understand that high school sports is a path to scholarships and professional sports careers. That's why I think it is okay for college sports to have criteria around who can compete where and when. So even if your bad *** soccer playing cis gender daughter gets beat in the state finals by a team led by a transgender female, the transgender female will most likely not take your daughter's scholarship away. So although your daughter may not get to experience that win the hard work they put into their sport will still pay off.

So in short if high school sports is about winning or losing and not about learning and growing then I say we should get rid of school sports and make it an entirely private industry affair. If the point of sports in our public schools it to teach children important lessons about life and struggle and overcoming obstacles then I can't imagine how you could justify excluding transgender kids from that opportunity to learn and grow.
 
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