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Udunka bout to get some-Today 1:00 PM

Ferguson_Mellochill said:
Trevon Scott is an interesting player -- 6'8" / 225-lb, decent feel on defense, decent shooting touch, enough athleticism and handle to rebound and go.



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I’d like to see him play for the Jazz. Can we give him a 10 day contract and see how it works? Does that work still with how the G league is set up? I feel like that 3-4 spot is still our weakest link.
 
NUMBERICA said:
Someone is going to have to explain to me how the lowest-skilled position is somehow the one that takes the most time to develop. Using real data as well, if possible.
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Sometimes people say things and they sound good but they are just flat out not true.
 
The Thriller said:
I’d like to see him play for the Jazz. Can we give him a 10 day contract and see how it works? Does that work still with how the G league is set up? I feel like that 3-4 spot is still our weakest link.
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We have a spot and I think the rules are the same where you can give two 10 days and then either have to sign them to a regular contract or waive them.
 
NUMBERICA said:
Someone is going to have to explain to me how the lowest-skilled position is somehow the one that takes the most time to develop. Using real data as well, if possible.
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Because being a shot blocking center is not "low skilled," especially in the NBA. My high school played Shawn Bradley in the state playoffs. Dude literally blocked a third of the shots we put up. He might as well have been Godzilla. He was still pretty damn good against NCAA competition. They ate him alive in the NBA, mainly because he didn't improve like he needed to to make that leap.

Dominant Centers spent their entire basketball lives being physically better in every way than their competition. That advantage stops abruptly in the NBA. Do you think Rudy Gobert rolls out of bed every morning with the natural talent to do what he does? Dude works hard, works had at a craft that he is currently the best in the NBA at. Why wouldn't you want someone to be his protégé? Why would you depend on the Cleveland Cavaliers or Sacramento Kings to develop the guy that we need to mirror what Rudy does? Grab a guy with Rudy's size, motor, and work ethic and let him learn from the master.

TL/DR- Dominant Centers are a "low skilled" position is a dumb take, especially for someone who follows the Jazz.
 
framer said:
Because being a shot blocking center is not "low skilled," especially in the NBA. My high school played Shawn Bradley in the state playoffs. Dude literally blocked a third of the shots we put up. He might as well have been Godzilla. He was still pretty damn good against NCAA competition. They ate him alive in the NBA, mainly because he didn't improve like he needed to to make that leap.

Dominant Centers spent their entire basketball lives being physically better in every way than their competition. That advantage stops abruptly in the NBA. Do you think Rudy Gobert rolls out of bed every morning with the natural talent to do what he does? Dude works hard, works had at a craft that he is currently the best in the NBA at. Why wouldn't you want someone to be his protégé? Why would you depend on the Cleveland Cavaliers or Sacramento Kings to develop the guy that we need to mirror what Rudy does? Grab a guy with Rudy's size, motor, and work ethic and let him learn from the master.

TL/DR- Dominant Centers are a "low skilled" position is a dumb take, especially for someone who follows the Jazz.
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You’re making a lot of leaps here. Chiefly, lowEST is a relative assessment, and yes, I think being good at being big requires less practice and skill than successfully running an offense or even just learning how to get a good shot off the dribble.

I never said Rudy doesn’t work hard. But you asked if I think he rolls out of bed and is good at blocking a shot. Honestly, yeah, I do. He does more than block shots which is why he is the premier defender, and that takes work and discipline. He’s developed his raw ability, but no one rolls out of bed and can run an offense or routinely nail contested 30 footers. Absolutely no one.

You earlier said that no one was high on Gobert during his rookie year and that simply isn’t true. I was excited the day they drafted him, because that size - as it is famously said - cannot be taught. Every time he got minutes, you could see how that size impacted the game, even if it needed some development (which every player needs to do!).
 
NUMBERICA said:
Someone is going to have to explain to me how the lowest-skilled position is somehow the one that takes the most time to develop. Using real data as well, if possible.
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Well, I don't have BMI charts, but to my recollection, it takes longer just to grow into the bigger body, and because of the linear-cubic relationship, the difference between 7 feet and 6-8 is much bigger than that between 6-8 and 6-4.

Because the pool is smaller to start with, it's much harder to get top athletic talent at 7 feet, and that means skill plays a more important role at that position.

Also, while the skills are different, I don't see center as a low-skill position.
 
NUMBERICA said:
You’re making a lot of leaps here. Chiefly, lowEST is a relative assessment, and yes, I think being good at being big requires less practice and skill than successfully running an offense or even just learning how to get a good shot off the dribble.

I never said Rudy doesn’t work hard. But you asked if I think he rolls out of bed and is good at blocking a shot. Honestly, yeah, I do. He does more than block shots which is why he is the premier defender, and that takes work and discipline. He’s developed his raw ability, but no one rolls out of bed and can run an offense or routinely nail contested 30 footers. Absolutely no one.

You earlier said that no one was high on Gobert during his rookie year and that simply isn’t true. I was excited the day they drafted him, because that size - as it is famously said - cannot be taught. Every time he got minutes, you could see how that size impacted the game, even if it needed some development (which every player needs to do!).
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And the chief argument I am making is there are enough centers out there that can function as a backup that you don't need to draft one over other positions and develop them for 3 years.

There are many guys that were big that didn't care for basketball that made it to the pros and cashed a bunch of checks... and were semi-functional on the basketball court. I think Rudy works his *** off... if he was 6'8" he'd still be in the nba probably... he would not be the defensive player of the year doe. There are literally bigs that roll out of bed and play because they have to not because the want to... Shawn Bradley was one of them.

The secondary argument that centers take a while to develop is flat out false. Many players take a long time to develop... the center position might be more complex than a 3 and D wing... but no god damn way is it harder than developing as a point guard or primary creator. Many centers function right out of the gate. Some pgs do too... but the narrative where you need to develop a center because they aren't on the market is flat out wrong. There is less demand for them, so while it might be a smaller group it doesn't have the premium that other positions have attached to it.

If you think Udoka was drafted to take over for Rudy someday then fine... but if we get like 4-6 years down the road and Rudy is gone how good is the team? What does the league even look like then? If you draft a guy in the first round he needs to have a reasonable path to providing value on his rookie deal. A path that doesn't include a catastrophic injury. Udoka has no hope of playing for 3 years unless Favs or Rudy go down... since he is unseasoned they might bring in a vet to play over him... it just reminds me of another situation that we paid to get out of.

I'll root for the kid but best case is he is a really good backup and we can trade him for something good because he's not gonna be a starter here. Who knows someday we might be able to flip him for something good... like maybe a first round pick.
 
Or he could become a defensively dominant presence like Gobert and we could have 48 minutes of shot blocking and paint protection next season?
As good as Favors is - he is not on Gobert's level - Udoka may be.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
The secondary argument that centers take a while to develop is flat out false. Many players take a long time to develop... the center position might be more complex than a 3 and D wing... but no god damn way is it harder than developing as a point guard or primary creator. Many centers function right out of the gate.
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Who are some centers drafted in the last 10 years, after position #20, that functioned right out of the gate?
 
One Brow said:

Xavier Tillman of the Memphis Grizzlies, NBA player stats

Xavier Tillman of the Memphis Grizzlies, NBA player stats including plus/minus data
www.82games.com

The 6'8" guy whose opponent PER is 35.4? What about him says "functional center" to you?
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That he is functional and plays backup center.

There have been a bunch of guys drafted in that range that were functional backups during their rookie year or by their second year. Most guys drafted in that range don’t play right away. There is nothing about centers that takes them longer to develop... you want a bigger list... remember we are talking about guys that are functional backup centers not starters.

-Jarrett allen
-jokic
- Daniel gafford
- Zubac
- Thomas Bryant
-Isiah Roby (splits his time between PF and center)
-Mitchell Robinson
- Montrez Harrell
 
I think HH is right. I didn't like the Udoka pick for obvious reasons, but in vacuum I didn't think he was a bad value because physical bigs later in the draft have had a decent track record of contributing. Usually they can start contributing in some capacity faster than most positions through sheer physical presence. There are so many examples of this.

Reality is, the Jazz FO probably saw their success with Gobert and applied some of the same things to draft Udoka. They went to the wishing well one too many times and got tunnel vision. The main difference here being that when Rudy was drafted, it was clear the Jazz were headed into a transition phase in the next few years with Big Al and Millsap. This time around we've locked in the most expensive C in history and also one of the most expensive backups in the league.

The hard part for Udoka is that he won't really have a chance. Even he is Rudy Gobert reincarnated, he's still going to playing in the G-League for 3 years sitting behind Gobert and Favors.
 
KqWIN said:
I think HH is right. I didn't like the Udoka pick for obvious reasons, but in vacuum I didn't think he was a bad value because physical bigs later in the draft have had a decent track record of contributing. Usually they can start contributing in some capacity faster than most positions through sheer physical presence. There are so many examples of this.

Reality is, the Jazz FO probably saw their success with Gobert and applied some of the same things to draft Udoka. They went to the wishing well one too many times and got tunnel vision. The main difference here being that when Rudy was drafted, it was clear the Jazz were headed into a transition phase in the next few years with Big Al and Millsap. This time around we've locked in the most expensive C in history and also one of the most expensive backups in the league.

The hard part for Udoka is that he won't really have a chance. Even he is Rudy Gobert reincarnated, he's still going to playing in the G-League for 3 years sitting behind Gobert and Favors.
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And the g league is a great tool for a year tops. Spend multiple years down there and it can be counterproductive. It helps get familiar with the system and gets a few reps but you need to get reps with and against real nba talent.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
That he is functional and plays backup center.

There have been a bunch of guys drafted in that range that were functional backups during their rookie year or by their second year. Most guys drafted in that range don’t play right away. There is nothing about centers that takes them longer to develop... you want a bigger list... remember we are talking about guys that are functional backup centers not starters.

-Jarrett allen
-jokic
- Daniel gafford
- Zubac
- Thomas Bryant
-Isiah Roby (splits his time between PF and center)
-Mitchell Robinson
- Montrez Harrell
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Since your definition of "functional" seems to be "does not have two broken legs, and can be slotted into the center position if the coach so chooses", I will grant you that we have some 15 functional centers on our roster alone, and it is indeed the easiest position to fill.
 
One Brow said:
Since your definition of "functional" seems to be "does not have two broken legs, and can be slotted into the center position if the coach so chooses", I will grant you that we have some 15 functional centers on our roster alone, and it is indeed the easiest position to fill.
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You're right, Jokic, Jarrett Allen, 'Trez, Thomas Bryant, and more are not even functional. Sarcasm aside, that is an offensive amount of intellectual dishonesty from the poster who tries harder than anyone to position themselves as the resident intellectual of the board.

Let's flip this around; who are the centers that took two or more years to develop into functional backups and we'll compare lists.
 
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NUMBERICA said:
You position yourself as an intellectual but you plant your heels and plunge your head up your *** as bad as Cy does.

But you're right, Jokic, Jarrett Allen, 'Trez, Thomas Bryant, and more are not even functional.

Let's flip this around; who are the centers that took three or more years to develop into functional backups and we'll compare lists.
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What about the center we played last night? He scored 30+ on us without breaking a sweat. He looked like Joker after joining Jenny Craig. I’m just grateful the rest of his team sucked. If he had Murray and Barton, we could’ve been in trouble last night in Orlando.

I guess he doesn’t count as he was drafted before #20 at #16
 
Willie Reed was a functional backup in the NBA, but the front office saw so much more in Bradley that they moved on from Willie.
 
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