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Let’s discuss Joe Ingles

Saint Cy of JFC said:
This thread should be burned
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So, part of me actually regrets starting the thread. I probably did because I’m bored just waiting for the season to start. The thing I really want to talk about is the Rockets series. Maybe someone who understands basketball at a higher level can explain how a guy who has been a professional basketball player for almost fifteen years all of a sudden gets stopped by being aggressively forced right. Joe is an extremely high IQ player. How did he not have a counter? He has one of the most brilliant coaches in the game, why couldn’t they adapt? How has no other team figured this out? Does Eric Gordon’s defense get the credit? Will other teams with lesser defenders be able to pull it off? Is the counter that difficult?

I guess my main concern is the second to last question. Forcing right seems like fundamentals of the game. If the Rockets negated him with it, will other teams?

I imagine having more shooters on the floor will help immensely. But do we have any basketball strategists that can comment?


Here’s Joe’s exit interview
https://www.spreaker.com/user/broadwaymedia/joe-ingles-utah-jazz-exit-interviews-4-2


The other two things I mentioned in the original post aren’t as concerning. Deep down I would hate to see the Jazz win the championship and not have Ingles play a critical role. I’d hate to see him not be on the roster. But seeing how cut throat the Raptors were last year, I wonder if it might have to be done. The Jazz built a team that the community loves. It hurts to see Favors and Rubio go on a fandom level, but it makes perfect basketball sense. Joe getting traded might hurt more. (Some fans have labeled him untouchable, is that because of his skill or his personality? I’d argue the only reason anyone would consider Joe untouchable is because of his personality. He does bring more value than his contract, but if an upgrade is available, you take it.)



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fishonjazz said:
I love joe but also think he is a bit over rated by jazz fans. I have seen the word untouchable used multiple times in regards to jingles.



Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app
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Untouchable isn't really true, but I don't see any realistic trade ideas around Joe either. Nobody is trading us a star for Joe, and there's simply no better grease for the wheels player than Joe Ingles.
 
JFFR said:
So, part of me actually regrets starting the thread. I probably did because I’m bored just waiting for the season to start. The thing I really want to talk about is the Rockets series. Maybe someone who understands basketball at a higher level can explain how a guy who has been a professional basketball player for almost fifteen years all of a sudden gets stopped by being aggressively forced right. Joe is an extremely high IQ player. How did he not have a counter? He has one of the most brilliant coaches in the game, why couldn’t they adapt? How has no other team figured this out? Does Eric Gordon’s defense get the credit? Will other teams with lesser defenders be able to pull it off? Is the counter that difficult?

I guess my main concern is the second to last question. Forcing right seems like fundamentals of the game. If the Rockets negated him with it, will other teams?

I imagine having more shooters on the floor will help immensely. But do we have any basketball strategists that can comment?


Here’s Joe’s exit interview
https://www.spreaker.com/user/broadwaymedia/joe-ingles-utah-jazz-exit-interviews-4-2


The other two things I mentioned in the original post aren’t as concerning. Deep down I would hate to see the Jazz win the championship and not have Ingles play a critical role. I’d hate to see him not be on the roster. But seeing how cut throat the Raptors were last year, I wonder if it might have to be done. The Jazz built a team that the community loves. It hurts to see Favors and Rubio go on a fandom level, but it makes perfect basketball sense. Joe getting traded might hurt more. (Some fans have labeled him untouchable, is that because of his skill or his personality? I’d argue the only reason anyone would consider Joe untouchable is because of his personality. He does bring more value than his contract, but if an upgrade is available, you take it.)



Sent from my iPhone using JazzFanz mobile app
Click to expand...
I don't think it was just him going right that they stopped. I was streaming a Rockets feed one game and they were doing the asst.coach halftime interview and he said something pretty close to "we have to continue to keep the ball out of Mitchel and Ingles hands and have Rubio an Crowder beat us". In other words their entire focus was on two players. Ingles is a great player but he's not the overcome entire team defenses focus good. Going right was part of it, but there's a whole lot more that they did than just that. They put our only two scorers in a strangle hold, good coaching by D'antoni as much as I hate to say it.
 
After watching the game last night, I would say that Joe is in the prime years of his career -- same for Patty Mills. They are guys who have developed their game through experience. It's pretty obvious to me that Donovan has a long way to go before his game reaches that level of maturity.
 
Eminence said:
Untouchable isn't really true, but I don't see any realistic trade ideas around Joe either. Nobody is trading us a star for Joe, and there's simply no better grease for the wheels player than Joe Ingles.
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I mean we traded for Conley. I could see joe being used in a trade for a player of similar ability/talent/caliber.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app
 
I think Joe is near untouchable in the sense that given his leadership, locker room presence and versatility, and also factoring in his age, it'd be difficult to get like-for-like value back in a trade. Some guys are just more valuable to a certain team or in a certain system than they are elsewhere, and I suspect that's the case with Jingles. Hell, if he had of signed his first contact with a different team with a coach who didn't recognise his talents the way Quin did, there's a good chance he could have been out of the league by now.
 
NUMBERICA said:
So I just want to stress that I am not concerned with his play last season, I am concerned that he’s skipping a surgery so he can play heavy minutes until right before the season starts and will be 32 by that time. He’s brilliant, he’s not invincible. When is he going to rest and recover? That is my concern.
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This. I think these tournaments are a really ****** idea. Especially this one which is essentially meaningless other than a cash grab by someone somewhere.

"Yeah I was hurt the year we had a chance at an NBA championship, but hey we got 2nd in the FIBA tournament."

"Oh well that is underst... Wait the what?"

"FIBA. You know the international basketball tournament."

"Oh, the Olympics?"

"No. FIBA."

"Oh. So not the Olympics. Hmm, so you weren't able to contribute in your teams best chance at an NBA championship run because you spent the summer playing in the BFA or something... And got 2nd?"

"Yeah. And it's FIBA."

"Ok, well good for you, I guess?"
 
Would depend on what he’d bring in a trade, but in every other regards it would be dumb to trade or bench him right now. Let the season roll and see how lineups feel. New roster new sets. I’m one of the first people here maybe the first to point out he was underrated when he first came. He is a very smart player who is a must have for any team. He also will decline with age and overrating is a trap too if you get too emotional about it.
 
You don't trade Ingles, he isn't that kind of player. His perceived value will never be high enough to really replace what he brings as his game is very multi-faceted and nuanced. He is really a poor-man's ginobili. He will be the player than starts, then moves to a 6th man role, then a solid vet presence off the bench over the next 5 years or so. The kind of player every championship team needs. Our ginobili or Iguodala so to speak.
 
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