Colorado Shooting

[Getting Traded]

I drive the car that gets the most speeding tickets...

I love it.

Oh, and I speed in it. Non-stop. You'd have a harder time catching me going the speed limit than you would catching me speeding. That said, I've never gotten a ticket in the car. I have a pretty good idea where they set up for speed traps, been driving in this valley since '93.

I get out of the way of drivers like you. I used to speed when I started driving years ago, but when I was 20 years old, I was in a head-on collision. That was the end of my speeding.

 

[Gameface]

I get out of the way of drivers like you. I used to speed when I started driving years ago, but when I was 20 years old, I was in a head-on collision. That was the end of my speeding.

Thank you for getting out of my way!

 

[babe]

So if a regular semi automatic hunting rifle and an AR-15 are basically the same thing, then no one should be upset if the AR-15 is banned right? I mean if the AR-15 were banned you could just go buy a semi auto hunting rifle and it would cost less too and you would still essentially have an AR-15 right?

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I don't think it is really like that.

The AR-15 uses a 0.223 bullet but with a helluva lot more powder behind its in the shell, which is wider than the bullet. The Ruger 0.22, which is the cheap one Game showed above generally comes with a 10-bullet clip, but you can buy a 25 bullet clip, or two and duct tape them together so all you have to do turn the assembly around , even with a long shell has less range and force. I've seen some hunters use the "hunting" AR-15 carefully sighted used by a good shooter to take a deer at 600 yards. Really hard to do that with the Ruger 0.22.

The military version of the A15 uses a larger shell even than that, with a slightly different caliber and I think a different bullet casing and twist rate.

I think that design is drop-dead style.

When you get specialists from several big gunmakers to work together to design a military bullet, you can do wonders with a 5.56 mm.

 

[Gameface]

I don't think it is really like that.

The AR-15 uses a 0.223 bullet but with a helluva lot more powder behind its in the shell, which is wider than the bullet. The Ruger 0.22, which is the cheap one Game showed above generally comes with a 10-bullet clip, but you can buy a 25 bullet clip, or two and duct tape them together so all you have to do turn the assembly around. , even with a long shell has less range and force. I've seen some hunters use the "hunting" AR-15 carefully sighted used by a good shooter to take a deer at 600 yards. Really hard to do that with the Ruger 0.22.

The military version of the A15 uses a larger shell even than that, with a slightly different caliber and I think a different bullet casing and twist rate.

The "military" uses the NATO 5.56mm in the M16 and M4, most "civilian" AR-15s are made for .223. The rounds will both fit in either gun but the 5.56 is a higher pressure round and may cause issues, potentially catastrophic issues, in a civilian AR-15. However, I've heard of plenty of people shooting 5.56mm out of their AR-15.

I knew when I posted that comparison that they shot significantly different ammo. So, is a new restriction going to include caliber? I doubt it. And if it did people could fairly easily pick a different type of round for the post-ban version of the AR-15.

This is a Mini-14, it fires the same ammo as the AR-15.

 

[Gameface]

There are reasons why people like AR-15s, and a lot of it is the way the gun functions and the way you operate the gun, which was developed on the military version (M16 and M4). I highly doubt any new restriction will address those specific qualities. The people who typically write the restrictions for guns are not particularly knowledgeable about guns, and that's a HUGE part of the problem.

It would be like a group of people who hate cars and never drive or ride in cars making all of our car safety rules. They'd be all like, "And no big tires! I hate those cars that have really big tires! Yeah! And you can't have your exhaust point straight up into the air. And no cars with wings on the back. No window tint either, how do we know what the people inside are doing if they have tint on their windows? What are they trying to hide? Can't hive tiny wheel or wheels that stick out or are all tilted weird. Nonce of that. Whew, okay looks like we're done here. Our highways will finally be safe."

 

[babe]

Yes, the AR15 has been used in many mass shootings (4 or more victims). And if they get banned, we may see a 30 rd Remington hunting rifle could used with similar effect. So gun proponents would worry it would be next on the hit list (a continuing erosion of their guns rights). But the AR platform is super customizable for different applications, unlike a standard hunting rifle. They are definitely different. They are also the same, in that all guns are dangerous and can be used to kill humans. Any semi-auto could do similar damage. Even a .22. The .223 round has high velocity, but is a very small round. A +P or +P+ 9mm hollow point pistol round would be more devastating.

While mass shootings are all over the national media, handgun deaths (without looking up the actual stats) account for the lion share of shooting deaths in this country by a LARGE margin (not Large Marge). More concealable, etc, and the ammunition has become even deadlier with new technologies. Again, another big mountain to climb to ban semi-auto handguns (likely won't ever happen), but they cause many more deaths.

GOP Sen. Kennedy compared these shootings to drunk driving a few days ago (saying you don't get rid of sober drivers when drunk driving is a problem). Not the best analogy and he received a lot of media backlash. However, I do agree that if the goal is to save lives, we should look at all avenues (not Kennedy's point), and shore up laws that can save laws (drunk driving laws in most states are quite lax). But with gun control, mass shootings and deaths from AR15/"assault rifles" account for a miniscule amount of the total gun deaths each year, but they are sensationalized by politicians and the media, and are the focus of gun control. It is ludicrous. Yes, they are a problem. Yes, we should do something, but the focus should be on handguns. Mass shootings are limited to four or more deaths, if you move that number to 3, the number rises by a gigantic margin, and most are attributable to handguns.

So I will Agree with Kennedy, that we should treat guns like alcohol. I also agree we need to crack down on drunk driving, which has impacted many of my friends and family. If you leave your liquor cabinet unlocked and your kids and their friends get drunk and kill someone, you will be held responsible. The same should apply consistently with guns. Keep them secure, or face legal consequences. Sell to someone who is ineligible (think minor for alcohol), face consequences.

Even with a total AR ban, do we take guns away or just prevent future purchases? Are those purchases limited to new manufactured guns or used market too? Will it be a taking to not allow someone to sell their own property? What will the cost be to collect 20mm+ guns in this country? How many people will fight and kill to keep their guns? Would it be constitutional to ban a gun someone already owns?

It may seem like I am anti-gun. I am not. I am anti-politician (both sides). I get sick of the same disingenuous arguments on both sides. However, I am a proponent for additional background checks (state checks should be done along with federal background checks for every purchase, even private sales). I'm not sure if magazine limitations will do anything, or if an AR ban would either, other than focus the discussion on the "next gun up".

A well functioning society should focus on finding the root cause of violence and focus on it along with other protective measures. It is a less of a "hot-button" political issue, that both parties should get behind. Mental health, drug use and homelessness are big problems. Start there, and keep the process moving to make gun ownership smarter, and move the chains within the realm of what the 2nd Amendment allows. At some point, we may have enough votes to amend the 2nd amendment, until then, let's be logical and move the yardstick where we can.

This is way too much thinking to expect any mass audience to get, let alone politicians.

I suppose you'd call me a hypocrite for raising this issue. When I write in here, I'm processing and begging for more ideas.

For the mass media, I think we ought to demand a return to the Wild West and honor the occasional John Wayne meddler in Justice. Roy Rogers was areal charmer because he could also sing and smile.

The price of silver has gone up, so maybe we just can't afford a Lone Ranger anymore. When I was a kid, everyone in the neighborhood crashed at the one house that had a TV and that's what we watched. I blame that education for causing the moron do-gooder that I am.

Gene Autry could do tricks with his horse, but the best shooter was that guy Shane.

What we need is a culture where mental cases believe there's a Shane in every bar and market and school. And no TV news that will play the story. If you want to die, just go shoot yourself, preferably not inside Mom's basement. Maybe think twice and go sit on a rock in the desert where the buzzards will find you quick and the coyotes will drag your bones off to their pups. Coyotes do more for our environment than most people can mess up. Whatever your mess, it's cleaned up by dawn.

Where we went Wrong was in the UN plan to monopolize and plan/ organize wars or military operations along regulated lines and let political honchos argue about and decide who wins what war.

The UN is all about monopolies on every article of commerce and thought, and really you just can't let ordinary people have annoying guns, even for hunting.

I don't remember the Aztec "flower wars" or "bowery wars" whatever they called them. That's the plan the UN has for us. The honchos get to sit in luxury and watch us march around as planned. Sure some of us die, and others go nuts, but most of us get to be slaves maybe. Or security personnel for the honchos.

Overpopulation is a nuisance, and self-defense is inconvenient for government honchos.

But a Shane on every block. wow. Yeah, he was a gunslinger but sick of doing it. Didn't even want anybody to know who he was. Too many wannabes stepping up to try to outdraw him, He got tired of seeing fools die, but but he'd do what had to be done.

 

[TheGoldStandard]

This is way too much thinking to expect any mass audience to get, let alone politicians.

I suppose you'd call me a hypocrite for raising this issue. When I write in here, I'm processing and begging for more ideas.

For the mass media, I think we ought to demand a return to the Wild West and honor the occasional John Wayne meddler in Justice. Roy Rogers was areal charmer because he could also sing and smile.

The price of silver has gone up, so maybe we just can't afford a Lone Ranger anymore. When I was a kid, everyone in the neighborhood crashed at the one house that had a TV and that's what we watched. I blame that education for causing the moron do-gooder that I am.

Gene Autry could do tricks with his horse, but the best shooter was that guy Shane.

What we need is a culture where mental cases believe there's a Shane in every bar and market and school. And no TV news that will play the story. If you want to die, just go shoot yourself, preferably not inside Mom's basement. Maybe think twice and go sit on a rock in the desert where the buzzards will find you quick and the coyotes will drag your bones off to their pups. Coyotes do more for our environment than most people can mess up. Whatever your mess, it's cleaned up by dawn.

Where we went Wrong was in the UN plan to monopolize and plan/ organize wars or military operations along regulated lines and let political honchos argue about and decide who wins what war.

The UN is all about monopolies on every article of commerce and thought, and really you just can't let ordinary people have annoying guns, even for hunting.

I don't remember the Aztec "flower wars" or "bowery wars" whatever they called them. That's the plan the UN has for us. The honchos get to sit in luxury and watch us march around as planned. Sure some of us die, and others go nuts, but most of us get to be slaves maybe. Or security personnel for the honchos.

Overpopulation is a nuisance, and self-defense is inconvenient for government honchos.

But a Shane on every block. wow. Yeah, he was a gunslinger but sick of doing it. Didn't even want anybody to know who he was. Too many wannabes stepping up to try to outdraw him, He got tired of seeing fools die, but but he's do what had to be done.

Shane died.

 

[gandalfe]

There are reasons why people like AR-15s, and a lot of it is the way the gun functions and the way you operate the gun, which was developed on the military version (M16 and M4). I highly doubt any new restriction will address those specific qualities. The people who typically write the restrictions for guns are not particularly knowledgeable about guns, and that's a HUGE part of the problem.

It would be like a group of people who hate cars and never drive or ride in cars making all of our car safety rules. They'd be all like, "And no big tires! I hate those cars that have really big tires! Yeah! And you can't have your exhaust point straight up into the air. And no cars with wings on the back. No window tint either, how do we know what the people inside are doing if they have tint on their windows? What are they trying to hide? Can't hive tiny wheel or wheels that stick out or are all tilted weird. Nonce of that. Whew, okay looks like we're done here. Our highways will finally be safe."

Or a bunch of men regulating women's health issues.

 

[babe]

Shane died.

Go watch the movie again. He rode off into the night.



I think the story line went like he was the last of the breed, and times were changing. Law was arriving.

But really, this is just an exaggeration of the role police, security, and trained concealed carry citizens.

 

[TheGoldStandard]

Go watch the movie again. He rode off into the night.



I think the story line went like he was the last of the breed, and times were changing. Law was arriving.

But really, this is just an exaggeration of the role police, security, and trained concealed carry citizens.

Rode off and died. Gut shot in the old west is bad news. Riding through the cemetary was a good hint.

 

[Gameface]

Or a bunch of men regulating women's health issues.

Ouch. That one is a little too real.

 

[babe]

Rode off and died. Gut shot in the old west is bad news. Riding through the cemetary was a good hint.

Did you read the book.

This is fiction. In fiction, most heros live from gunshot wounds the way John Wayne did, say in the movie Eldorado. Old men heros don'tworry about a bullet next to their spine, they go shoot the bad guys anyway.

The movie Shane had him riding off, and there was no funeral scene for him.

But I get your point. I am not a hero.

And even cops die sometimes, even with modern care.

 

[fishonjazz]

There are reasons why people like AR-15s, and a lot of it is the way the gun functions and the way you operate the gun, which was developed on the military version (M16 and M4). I highly doubt any new restriction will address those specific qualities. The people who typically write the restrictions for guns are not particularly knowledgeable about guns, and that's a HUGE part of the problem.

It would be like a group of people who hate cars and never drive or ride in cars making all of our car safety rules. They'd be all like, "And no big tires! I hate those cars that have really big tires! Yeah! And you can't have your exhaust point straight up into the air. And no cars with wings on the back. No window tint either, how do we know what the people inside are doing if they have tint on their windows? What are they trying to hide? Can't hive tiny wheel or wheels that stick out or are all tilted weird. Nonce of that. Whew, okay looks like we're done here. Our highways will finally be safe."

Why do you think people who write laws don't know about guns? Pretty much everyone in this country owns guns including government. In fact they probably have more money to afford them and more access to them. Plus I'm guessing plenty of government officials are former military as it looks good on a resume.
Probably some former law enforcement in the government too.

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[Gameface]

Why do you think people who write laws don't know about guns? Pretty much everyone in this country owns guns including government. In fact they probably have more money to afford them and more access to them. Plus I'm guessing plenty of government officials are former military as it looks good on a resume.
Probably some former law enforcement in the government too.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app

Because they use a collapsible stock and flash suppressor as criteria for banning guns.

Mike Bloomberg is someone who has tried (hard) to position himself in the front ranks of the anti-gun movement. Here he is...



This guy is someone who might write gun laws. Politicians write gun laws.

 

[bigb]

The "military" uses the NATO 5.56mm in the M16 and M4, most "civilian" AR-15s are made for .223. The rounds will both fit in either gun but the 5.56 is a higher pressure round and may cause issues, potentially catastrophic issues, in a civilian AR-15. However, I've heard of plenty of people shooting 5.56mm out of their AR-15.

My AR is chambered 5.56. I will shoot either the 5.56x45 or .223, depending on what’s available. You are NOT supposed to shoot 5.56 through a gun chambered .223


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[babe]

Why do you think people who write laws don't know about guns? Pretty much everyone in this country owns guns including government. In fact they probably have more money to afford them and more access to them. Plus I'm guessing plenty of government officials are former military as it looks good on a resume.
Probably some former law enforcement in the government too.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app

It doesn't matter what your knowledge, or experience or even academic qualifications if you are a politician. When you go into politics, either as a candidate or elected official, or an employee, you are required to check your intellectual baggage at the door.

You are entering a kind of twilight zone, another reality you might say. What then matters, and what you must then pay attention to, is the money that buys or bribes you, and the agenda that fits with the real movers and shakers.

We have this myth about the UN, like how it is ineffectual. No, it is "Earnest". In this world you MUST be "Earnest".

If you are a good boy you might get to suck on some guvmint teats, and not just eat guvmint cheeze like the little people.

If you don't play this game, those nasty Press bulldogs will focus on you. You won't get your cut of the Party re-election moolah, and you won't get any stock tips from the guvmint committees planning new budgets or laws, or from bureaucrats writing regulations. And the lush lobbyist moolah stream will dry up for you. It won't be worth your time. You'll lose your business and all your friends.

Most of us have no idea how all this works, if we talk about it, it will be called a "conspiracy theory".

No, it's "business as usual".

 

[Eminence]

Most civilian ARs have 5.56 barrels in my experience.

Of course, not enough difference between 5.56 and .223 rounds to bother with separating the two in anything regulatory.

 

[babe]

Because they use a collapsible stock and flash suppressor as criteria for banning guns.

Mike Bloomberg is someone who has tried (hard) to position himself in the front ranks of the anti-gun movement. Here he is...



This guy is someone who might write gun laws. Politicians write gun laws.

More to the point, he doesn't think you need to know either.

He might actually know, but he is a politician on a mission. Gotta run the narrative. Gotta be a player.

 

[One Brow]

No, it is "Earnest". In this world you MUST be "Earnest".

We all should understand The Importance of Being Ernest.

 

[idestroyedthetoilet]

It doesn't matter what your knowledge, or experience or even academic qualifications if you are a politician. When you go into politics, either as a candidate or elected official, or an employee, you are required to check your intellectual baggage at the door.

You are entering a kind of twilight zone, another reality you might say. What then matters, and what you must then pay attention to, is the money that buys or bribes you, and the agenda that fits with the real movers and shakers.

We have this myth about the UN, like how it is ineffectual. No, it is "Earnest". In this world you MUST be "Earnest".

If you are a good boy you might get to suck on some guvmint teats, and not just eat guvmint cheeze like the little people.

If you don't play this game, those nasty Press bulldogs will focus on you. You won't get your cut of the Party re-election moolah, and you won't get any stock tips from the guvmint committees planning new budgets or laws, or from bureaucrats writing regulations. And the lush lobbyist moolah stream will dry up for you. It won't be worth your time. You'll lose your business and all your friends.

Most of us have no idea how all this works, if we talk about it, it will be called a "conspiracy theory".

No, it's "business as usual".

I'm often reminded of a scene from Australian comedy drama Rake. Congress person David Potter, all depressed at how he and politic had turned out, ranting and moaning that it used to be about ideas and ideals, and what happened?