What's new
By:
Filters

Trade deadline discussion

Douchebag K said:
yeah no actual offseason in years and years. This will if anything prolong his career
Click to expand...
Exactly. Thats why everyone is always excited when they see a guy have a season ending knee injury. They almost always come back better than before. Especially when they are older players.
 
fishonjazz said:
I know that is what you feel. What i am asking is will you still be mad if he turns out to be much better than you expected and earns every minute given?
Click to expand...
Dawg... of course not. I'm a team player... I ain't gonna be a hater.

Its just funny... when people are like "he's super talented and has a lot of potential... all he has to figure out is basketball stuff and he'll be good at basketball stuff".

I think its a relatively low risk okay reward proposition. But if I am force fed minutes with him struggling cuz he's Danny's Boy then I'm gonna be typing in all caps Jae Crowder style.
 
fishonjazz said:
Why?
Click to expand...
Giving them everything he had from day one, getting dragged through trade rumors for a year (and publicly acknowledging how much it bothered him), then getting dumped for salary relief and bad basketball players when he was at his lowest?

Whenever he’s talked about this, he’s said he’s good with it if it helps the team get better. I think that was very purposeful phrasing: he didn’t wanna get dumped like garbage.
 
Last edited:
NUMBERICA said:
Literally what I was thinking as I was reading that.

It’s wild to me how often people ignore the importance of being good at basketball when assessing if someone is good at basketball or not.
Click to expand...
Honestly its a super under-rated aspect of player evaluation.

The local folks literally lay out "here is the player he is... now if he can be totally different than he has been then it will work out".

I ain't saying the kid can't be good... but he is purely theoretical. Again... Locke was slobbering over the move and he is the second worst player in the entire league by his bull **** statistic... second only to rookie pg Jalen Suggs. He's the rare combo of high usage hyper inefficient... then local media is like "well if we have him be low usage and efficient it will work way better".

It'd be like Brooklyn thinking Simmons is gonna come and and start shooting threes.
 
NUMBERICA said:
Giving them everything he had from day one, getting dragged through trade rumors for a year (and publicly acknowledging how much it bothered him), then getting dumped for salary relief and bad basketball players when he was at his lowest?

Whenever he’s talked about this, he’s said he’s good with it if it helps the team get better. I think that was very purposeful phrasing: he didn’t wanna get dumped like garbage.
Click to expand...
I like NAW, think he can improve outside NOLA, add skills etc.

But what's the team thinking right now? Are we sure they see NAW as an upgrade and that he adresses our needs? Because if they aren't, it won't sit well with them to see Ingles gone to save Ryan some money.

I am sure Gobert is thinking "another guard that's going to sleep on defense and get back cut while thinking about what's he going to do on offense."
 
Hekate said:
I like NAW, think he can improve outside NOLA, add skills etc.

But what's the team thinking right now? Are we sure they see NAW as an upgrade and that he adresses our needs? Because if they aren't, it won't sit well with them to see Ingles gone to save Ryan some money.

I am sure Gobert is thinking "another guard that's going to sleep on defense and get back cut while thinking about what's he going to do on offense."
Click to expand...
I think NAW is straight dressing. It doesn’t make a god damn bit of sense. I’m not sure if I’m more worried in their assessment of NAW and how that interplays with team needs (bad and bad), or more insulted that they think this plate of **** passes the smell test. Cuz it doesn’t.
 
If you’re committed to something, you may not hit every time, but if you’re really set on something then you’ll find ways to do it, even if small. We’ve known about specific problems for quite a while. We’ve talked about improving those for quite a while. I don’t doubt that we want to improve those. It’s more about the application. Any father in the world wants to be a better dad. Many don’t want to put frivolous needs above there own children, yet so many do. It’s not sufficient to want to be better. You don’t get to say “well this is where my heart is” when compared to others who are making the real sacrifices. It’s not so much about what we theoretically want as we lay in bed and day dream. It’s about the action.

Yes, I don’t doubt at all that everyone in the organization wants to get better. They’ll be just as happy as any of us if or when we really go deep. But we’ve wanted to find moves that improve the team but they’ve been hard to come by. We’ve also wanted to find moves to shed salary and somehow always seem to find those.

That dad always wants to find time to go to his son’s baseball game. It’s not easy when you’re busy. But there’s always time to do shots with your buddies at the strip club.
 
infection said:
If you’re committed to something, you may not hit every time, but if you’re really set on something then you’ll find ways to do it, even if small. We’ve known about specific problems for quite a while. We’ve talked about improving those for quite a while. I don’t doubt that we want to improve those. It’s more about the application. Any father in the world wants to be a better dad. Many don’t want to put frivolous needs above there own children, yet so many do. It’s not sufficient to want to be better. You don’t get to say “well this is where my heart is” when compared to others who are making the real sacrifices. It’s not so much about what we theoretically want as we lay in bed and day dream. It’s about the action.

Yes, I don’t doubt at all that everyone in the organization wants to get better. They’ll be just as happy as any of us if or when we really go deep. But we’ve wanted to find moves that improve the team but they’ve been hard to come by. We’ve also wanted to find moves to shed salary and somehow always seem to find those.

That dad always wants to find time to go to his son’s baseball game. It’s not easy when you’re busy. But there’s always time to do shots with your buddies at the strip club.
Click to expand...
I also would add to this, as people may say something like, “hey, we’re improving the team, we got House!”

We’ve known our weaknesses. We saw them against Denver. We ended up signing Shaq (after he dangled out there for quite a while), which seemed to indicate that we were aware of some of those needs. In any case, he never played and we waived him. We watched the exact same thing repeat itself but in drastically worse fashion last post-season. If we showed that we were actually trying to improve on these fronts, I’d be fine. Even if those weren’t working out. Anyone who has followed my posting at all knows that any of my suggestions for improvement are quite modest and often rather simple (for instance having Udoh be our backup rather than everything we’ve invested in that position over years). There are definitely ways we can improve our weaknesses that are within reach. Hell, even if we were to say that House is that addition, I’d totally be all for it. But it’s not. There’s no evidence that the really believe that. We’ve had an available roster spot (2 spots) since forever. On January 4th, we salary-dumped Oni, dropping us below the league-required threshold. House was waived by the Rockets on December 18th. Stanley Johnson has been available the whole season. Do I think either of these guys are a cure for all that ails? Hell no. But if we pursued those guys, it would at least be evidence that we have some self-awareness and that we’re looking to address it. Instead we kept roster spots open because of tax. We used an asset to dump a guy’s $1.5M salary halfway through the season. Our priority was keeping that roster spot open while House was still out there. We didn’t sign House until January 6th when we absolutely had to and when we used a health exception. And if he’s the improvement that the media will inevitable claim the FO is delivering on, WTF is he still floating out there as a free agent? Because right now that open roster spot not occupying $$$ space is a bigger priority than whatever House brings to the table (at least that’s what they think) but we’re going to be gaslit otherwise by the org not too far down the road.

The org could change very little and I’d be quite satisfied. If they signed House when he was available (or hell, sign him NOW) and said “hey, we really think he’s a valuable guy to have,” I’d tip my hat to them in seeing that they’re being active in doing something besides dumping salary. We’ve seen them be plenty active doing that. But show us that you’re active in actually improving the team.
 
Hekate said:
I like NAW, think he can improve outside NOLA, add skills etc.

But what's the team thinking right now? Are we sure they see NAW as an upgrade and that he adresses our needs? Because if they aren't, it won't sit well with them to see Ingles gone to save Ryan some money.

I am sure Gobert is thinking "another guard that's going to sleep on defense and get back cut while thinking about what's he going to do on offense."
Click to expand...
It's a another big project for the development team. Forrest's defense has gone from good to amazing in the past few weeks. And like Forrest, NAW's got all the tools to be a good defender. It may be unbearable and painful to watch at first, like Forrest's first few games of the season. But if they can develop NAW's defense the same way as they worked on Forrest, NAW may turn into a good enough defender just in time for the playoffs.
 
NAW is not an answer to any of our short term needs. It is spending money on someone viewed as having potential to be developed just like picking up an extra draft pick. It is also not a salary dump trade. But then I don't think Oni was a salary dump move either. Doing things the best way you can financially once you have made a basketball decision is different than making moves based upon finances. There were clearly times in the past that we made moves with finances first, basketball second. I am not a Ryan Smith fan but he has been willing to spend money. If it was about money we would be doing everything we can to avoid the repeater tax. Flame away.
 
gomretat said:
Doing things the best way you can financially once you have made a basketball decision is different than making moves based upon finances.
Click to expand...
Using a second rounder to dump half of a $1.5M salary rather than cutting them and keeping the pick.
 
NUMBERICA said:
Giving them everything he had from day one, getting dragged through trade rumors for a year (and publicly acknowledging how much it bothered him), then getting dumped for salary relief and bad basketball players when he was at his lowest?

Whenever he’s talked about this, he’s said he’s good with it if it helps the team get better. I think that was very purposeful phrasing: he didn’t wanna get dumped like garbage.
Click to expand...
Eh, Utah was great to Joe. He was great to utah. His contract was up and he got injured. They amicably parted ways. No bad blood. This is just that time of year for jazzfanz
 
infection said:
We’ve known our weaknesses. We saw them against Denver. We ended up signing Shaq (after he dangled out there for quite a while), which seemed to indicate that we were aware of some of those needs. In any case, he never played and we waived him. We watched the exact same thing repeat itself but in drastically worse fashion last post-season. If we showed that we were actually trying to improve on these fronts, I’d be fine. Even if those weren’t working out. Anyone who has followed my posting at all knows that any of my suggestions for improvement are quite modest and often rather simple (for instance having Udoh be our backup rather than everything we’ve invested in that position over years). There are definitely ways we can improve our weaknesses that are within reach. Hell, even if we were to say that House is that addition, I’d totally be all for it. But it’s not. There’s no evidence that the really believe that. We’ve had an available roster spot (2 spots) since forever. On January 4th, we salary-dumped Oni, dropping us below the league-required threshold. House was waived by the Rockets on December 18th. Stanley Johnson has been available the whole season. Do I think either of these guys are a cure for all that ails? Hell no. But if we pursued those guys, it would at least be evidence that we have some self-awareness and that we’re looking to address it. Instead we kept roster spots open because of tax. We used an asset to dump a guy’s $1.5M salary halfway through the season. Our priority was keeping that roster spot open while House was still out there. We didn’t sign House until January 6th when we absolutely had to and when we used a health exception. And if he’s the improvement that the media will inevitable claim the FO is delivering on, WTF is he still floating out there as a free agent? Because right now that open roster spot not occupying $$$ space is a bigger priority than whatever House brings to the table (at least that’s what they think) but we’re going to be gaslit otherwise by the org not too far down the road.

The org could change very little and I’d be quite satisfied. If they signed House when he was available (or hell, sign him NOW) and said “hey, we really think he’s a valuable guy to have,” I’d tip my hat to them in seeing that they’re being active in doing something besides dumping salary. We’ve seen them be plenty active doing that. But show us that you’re active in actually improving the team.
Click to expand...

Shaq wasnt good. We had Oni last year who was playing very good regular season defense. He chocked in the playoffs and we kept him again to see if he could improve, but he didnt so we cut him. Holding on to him was worth holding onto and see. This year we have 2 guards playing very good defense by a lot of statistics and the eye test. One of them Butler isnt getting many minutes but one of them, Forrest is. We are developing him into filling the need that we have. He is doing a great job of that, and seems to be improving. I would have liked to trade for a long athletic 3/4 that is also a big need but it didnt happen. It was a frustrating trade deadline. But we have Forrest and Butler who seem better fits and can fill the role you want Dunn for.

Also you can keep repeating that we could sign Udoh. But he did not want to play for the min. He got a lot more money overseas and likes it. He has been pretty clear about this.

I do agree we have made a lot of moves lately for salary purposes that is disappointing when the message is we are all in. This latest trade doesnt likely help us this year, even if its a decent move.

I dont think House is a good defender but he has been solid for us. I hope we sign him for the season. I am hoping we either wanted a different guy and were trying or promised him we would sign him later. I guess we will see.
 
Ron Mexico said:
Shaq wasnt good. We had Oni last year who was playing very good regular season defense. He chocked in the playoffs and we kept him again to see if he could improve, but he didnt so we cut him. Holding on to him was worth holding onto and see. This year we have 2 guards playing very good defense by a lot of statistics and the eye test. One of them Butler isnt getting many minutes but one of them, Forrest is. We are developing him into filling the need that we have. He is doing a great job of that, and seems to be improving. I would have liked to trade for a long athletic 3/4 that is also a big need but it didnt happen. It was a frustrating trade deadline. But we have Forrest and Butler who seem better fits and can fill the role you want Dunn for.

Also you can keep repeating that we could sign Udoh. But he did not want to play for the min. He got a lot more money overseas and likes it. He has been pretty clear about this.

I do agree we have made a lot of moves lately for salary purposes that is disappointing when the message is we are all in. This latest trade doesnt likely help us this year, even if its a decent move.

I dont think House is a good defender but he has been solid for us. I hope we sign him for the season. I am hoping we either wanted a different guy and were trying or promised him we would sign him later. I guess we will see.
Click to expand...
The point about Shaq or anyone else not being good isn’t true point. The point is showing that we’re trying to address an issue. I even qualify that by saying we could fall flat doing so. Even last year I said that I’d be fine if we gave Forrest the Oni role. It’s great that he’s looked good during this stretch, but if we didn’t have COVID and injuries, none of this would have happened. We’d be doing the same **** come hell or high water. If a guy forgets it’s his mom’s birthday and ends up calling her to ask about something else but finds out it’s her birthday in the process, he doesn’t get points for being an awesome son even if he plays it off. I’m sorry.

And for what it’s worth on Udoh, he left because he didn’t get playing time. If you’re offering him the spot behind Gobert, the money would be irrelevant, also (especially when you consider how many millions and assets we sunk on that spot). Udoh was making $3.3M in China. The two years he was with us we paid him $3.2M and $3.4M. But Udoh wasn’t the point. The point is that many people here create a straw man, as if we’re pissed that we didn’t trade for Thybulle or Smart (hell I mostly advocated against Smart). I bring up Udoh as a reference that what I’m gauging this on is evidence of our effort to recognize a problem and address it, and not constant bitching that we didn’t land some savior piece.

We put forth a lot of effort to drop salary, though. Imagine if a smidge of that focus and effort could have actually been on improving the team.
 
fishonjazz said:
Eh, Utah was great to Joe. He was great to utah. His contract was up and he got injured. They amicably parted ways. No bad blood. This is just that time of year for jazzfanz
Click to expand...
“Amicable” is a little bit of a stretch when he publicly expresses hurt at what they did.

We’ll see what happens, would truly love nothing more than a reunion even if he isn’t good. But maybe any of you have had an ex before and were surprised at how they behave after the split.
 
infection said:
The point about Shaq or anyone else not being good isn’t true point. The point is showing that we’re trying to address an issue. I even qualify that by saying we could fall flat doing so. Even last year I said that I’d be fine if we gave Forrest the Oni role. It’s great that he’s looked good during this stretch, but if we didn’t have COVID and injuries, none of this would have happened. We’d be doing the same **** come hell or high water. If a guy forgets it’s his mom’s birthday and ends up calling her to ask about something else but finds out it’s her birthday in the process, he doesn’t get points for being an awesome son even if he plays it off. I’m sorry.

And for what it’s worth on Udoh, he left because he didn’t get playing time. If you’re offering him the spot behind Gobert, the money would be irrelevant, also (especially when you consider how many millions and assets we sunk on that spot). Udoh was making $3.3M in China. The two years he was with us we paid him $3.2M and $3.4M. But Udoh wasn’t the point. The point is that many people here create a straw man, as if we’re pissed that we didn’t trade for Thybulle or Smart (hell I mostly advocated against Smart). I bring up Udoh as a reference that what I’m gauging this on is evidence of our effort to recognize a problem and address it, and not constant bitching that we didn’t land some savior piece.

We put forth a lot of effort to drop salary, though. Imagine if a smidge of that focus and effort could have actually been on improving the team.
Click to expand...
we are improving alright, but the major issue for the jazz is that the FO are always a step too slow in terms of discovering team's weaknesses and taking actions to address them.

Like how long it took them to find a decent back up center and how many assets they've burnt since 2017, starting with Tony Bradley.

and when it was abundantly clear that they needed more perimeter defense in 2019/20, and they went out and got... Ersan and Matt Thomas

And in 2022, when we finally got ourselves a decent perimeter defender in Forrest, where's the athletic wing that they've been talking since 2017, basically ever since Haywood left the franchise?

when they finally find enough size and athleticism to cover the 3/4 spot, Rudy probably will be 33 /34 and way past his prime
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top