Nope, I wouldn't do it.
Interesting trade idea from Locke
- Thread starter baka98
- Start date
jazzlurker
Well-Known Member
I vote go for it... Worst case scenario is that Brand cannot play due to injury and the insurance company picks up his salary.
billyshelby
Well-Known Member
That is not the worst case scenario by a longshot. And it's a pretty terrible scenario by itself.
i think a lot of people here are missing the point of this trade.
if the Jazz really want to remain a contender, then they have to spend the money to be a contender, and that means over the salary cap and probably right up to the luxury tax limit (at least). all the serious contenders spend up to and over the tax limit.
there are two ways to spend money over the salary cap:
1. re-sign your own guys to bigger bird-rights contracts
2. trade your own guys for other team's guys that have longer contracts
the jazz have already done #1 with: Memo and Millsap. Boozer and AK's deals are up soon. Boozer is probably going to leave and AK isn't worth half the money he is making. is there anyone left on the team that will have a contract up worth spending money on?
it seems to me that the Jazz need to go with #2. if they don't, and just let guys walk away, their ability to spend over the cap is going to evaporate.
so, who is available with a longer contract that would help the team? obviously, they're going to have to take on someone with issues (they probably won't have a Gasol fall into their lap like the Lakers did). Brand seems relatively low risk to me. sure, he has disappointed in Philly, but he hasn't been terrible. Philly wouldn't be so eager to dump him if they didn't have Speights waiting in the wings. Brand was plenty good in LA. maybe it just isn't working out in Philly but the Jazz could make it work. oh, and someone else already pointed out that Brand for 3 years is better than Boozer for 6.
and the #2 pick... that is some really good icing on the cake. so much so... is Philly really going to cough that up?
if the Jazz really want to remain a contender, then they have to spend the money to be a contender, and that means over the salary cap and probably right up to the luxury tax limit (at least). all the serious contenders spend up to and over the tax limit.
there are two ways to spend money over the salary cap:
1. re-sign your own guys to bigger bird-rights contracts
2. trade your own guys for other team's guys that have longer contracts
the jazz have already done #1 with: Memo and Millsap. Boozer and AK's deals are up soon. Boozer is probably going to leave and AK isn't worth half the money he is making. is there anyone left on the team that will have a contract up worth spending money on?
it seems to me that the Jazz need to go with #2. if they don't, and just let guys walk away, their ability to spend over the cap is going to evaporate.
so, who is available with a longer contract that would help the team? obviously, they're going to have to take on someone with issues (they probably won't have a Gasol fall into their lap like the Lakers did). Brand seems relatively low risk to me. sure, he has disappointed in Philly, but he hasn't been terrible. Philly wouldn't be so eager to dump him if they didn't have Speights waiting in the wings. Brand was plenty good in LA. maybe it just isn't working out in Philly but the Jazz could make it work. oh, and someone else already pointed out that Brand for 3 years is better than Boozer for 6.
and the #2 pick... that is some really good icing on the cake. so much so... is Philly really going to cough that up?
mellow
Well-Known Member
Actually that might be a best case scenario. THe worst would be him being healthy enough to stay off hte injured list but playing like he did last year.
Also, I thought I heard ESPN commenators saying that Philly's move to hire Collins was a sign that they wanted to win now with vetrans, because he didn't have the patience or ability to develop young players.
NAOS
Well-Known Member
First, spending for the sake of spending doesn't get you anything. $ does not equal championship; correlation is not causation
This trade is allllll about the #2 pick. If Brand were to get sent here he would come off the bench, with Millsap starting. Brand would become a very high-priced backup... the #2 guy, however, will hopefully start and be an all-star by his second or third year.
Think of this trade like this: Brand and the #2's salaries are averaged. Would you take Brand and Favors/Turner for an average annual salary of 10 million each?
Actually, it does get you something: The ability to continue to spend over the salary cap in the future (read my post). If the Jazz just let Boozer and AK walk away, their salary spending will dip down to the the cap, or below. Then, how do they get their spending back up? Only by re-signing their own players.
Even if Brand completely busts, the Jazz will have a chance in the future to flip him into something else (assuming the CBA continues to be similar to how it is now).
Remember when the Lakers traded Caron Butler for Kwame Brown? Looked like a disaster at the time, since Brown was awful for them. But then, they were able to flip Brown to get Gasol. There was no way for them to just sign a player like Gasol, since they were at/over the cap (i don't remember). They had to have an asset to trade to get him. Even though Brown sucked on the court, his crappy contract was valuable to the Grizzlies as a trade piece.
So, back to my premise: If the Jazz want to be a contender, they have to turn the money currently given to Boozer/AK into something else. Anyone have a better idea than Brand?
GoBolts
Well-Known Member
I couldn't agree more...also, not allot of high quality free agents in the NBA want to live in Utah and/or play for Grandma Gail and Greggie.
could be true, but the real issue is that the Jazz aren't going to have any cap space to sign free agents any time soon anyway. The Deron, Memo, Millsap, and CJ contracts take care of that (plus any re-signings of: Matthews, Korver, AK, etc). so, complaining about KOC, Granmda Gail, Greggie, whoever... it is pointless.
NAOS
Well-Known Member
Okay, I now understand your point about going over the cap. I still think it is very easy to take this rationale too far, and certainly taking on Brand is flirting with that line. The over-the-cap-and-fine-with-it mentality comes with consequences.
As for this quote above, the only contract I have complained about is Memo's. DWill, Millsap, and CJ are all earning their keep. Memo was a mistake of massive proportions.
Dude, you totally owned Sirimsmarterthanyou.
Not really, he had to go digging to find that definition. If you google it (since he didn't provide a source) the number one hit you get is ... jazzfanz.com.
Looking in more reasonable places you find the more common definitions relate to things like "pertaining to a margin" or "situated on the border or the edge."
For example https://dictionary.reference.com/browse/marginal
It doesn't take a genius to read my original post and figure out I'm talking about, for example, the difference in quality between the second pick and the ninth pick or the difference in quality between AK and Elton Brand rather than saying there is very little difference in quality.
Damn, you're smart.
i assume the Jazz have some rough number where they want their salary spending to be, what they think they can afford. i guess we'll find out more about that this summer. if it so happens that the number is right at the luxury tax line, then i think Brand is in play (if it is really true he is available).
Brand is definitely a risk, and "flirting with that line" as you say. on the other hand, his supposed skills seem to be a sort-of replacement for what Boozer did for the Jazz. who else could be that player? other players with a few years on their deals and available might be:
Iguodala
Villanueva
Hamilton
Maggette
Ellis
Turkoglu
Barbosa
Okafor
Arenas
Jamison
Diaw
Chandler
meh.
maybe Biedrins is available? i'd certainly take him before Brand. his contract isn't too bad ($9million per, for a bunch more years)
maybe Memo's deal was a mistake. on the other hand, he's a big guy, a pretty good player, and would agree to sign with the Jazz for just 2 years. at the same time he re-signed, Boozer was off touring the NBA campaigning to get out of here.
That's the only thing I've ever wanted to hear my whole life! How did you know?!
I just have good people skills and am a very compassionate and sincere person!
P.S. The new "emoticons" are terrible.
Darkwing Duck
Well-Known Member
Ah, but as I mentioned, the link you provided stated "marginal" as a quantitative measure and not a qualitative measure, the example given being the final unit of a group of units that performed the same action. There was nothing about the difference in quality. That said, I'm more open to the trade than you are, but I doubt Philly thinks it's a good trade so they decline anyway.
GoBolts
Well-Known Member
I agree with your point of complaining about the org. being pointless, but not for the financial reasons you point out (although true), it is pointless to complain because the sad fact is that the team IS in Utah and the owners ARE who they are... don't mistake thinking that the complaining has just begun this summer, I and many other sad and frustrated Jazz fans have been complaining about the team's inability to sign quality FA's for many many MANY years now... but alas, it is who we are and what we do. I accept my fate. I wear it as a badge of honor. I will never sell out. It is those who have jumped off the cliff and bought Lakers jerseys (I'm sure most own old Bulls jerseys too), and now I that I think about it, I'm willing to bet they are Yankees fans, who can be called the sell-outs. I am a real fan. I will support my teams forever. I cheer for the Padres, always have. I cheer for the Chargers, always have. I cheer for the Jazz, always have. I've been a season ticket holder since the franchise came to this state. So any of you that don't like my complaining about my team can relax...I've earned the right.
the Jazz have had money under the salary cap ONCE in recent memory: the summer of 2004. they promptly blew it all on two players: Boozer and Okur. thus, i don't understand your complaint. but, like you said, you've "earned the right" to keep complaining. so, hopefully that is fulfilling or whatever for you.