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Interesting trade idea from Locke

r_u_s_t_b_u_c_k_e_t said:
whatever. once all the recent champions locked in their one high draft pick guy, they filled in with FAs/trades and lucky low picks:

Lakers: Kobe + FAs/trades (Gasol, Odom, Artest/Ariza) + lucky low picks (Bynum)
Celtics: Pierce + FAs/trades (Garnett, Allen) + lucky low picks (Perkins, Rondo)
Spurs: Duncan + lucky low picks (Parker, Ginobili)

if Deron is our one high-pick guy, then KOC better figure out the FAs/trades and lucky low picks part of it (ie, draft a Bynum with this year's pick).
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Don't worry. He'll get it done so there's no need to try to trade up now and get a Favors or Turner. He knows where that close and is waiting 'til next summer to get Marc Gasol or another potential cog in the wheel who's just dying to play here.
 
I doubt it had/has to be paid in full in cash, I just think the stipulation is to pay the entirety of he contract and probably on the same pay schedule.

Why would paying the entire contract in full immediately be the rule?
 
i'll admit that i raised my eyebrows a bit when i heard this discussed on kfan. on second thought, though, i realized it's not that great a move.

brand is a definite downgrade from boozer, on a variety of fronts. he's also older, has an ever more checkered medical profile, and just came off career lows in scoring, rebounding and blocked shots. he's at an age where he's not likely to bounce back, and that's without even considering the blown achilles. he hasn't shot over 50% since the injury and his PER (15.72) is that of a very average NBA player.

so you're giving up on bringing back two of the best 4 players on the team (AK and booz) as well as a greg monroe/xavier henry/gordon haywood type guy in exchange for evan turner and the right to pay the broken shell of a man i just described 50M over the next three years.

i'm a pretty big ET fan and i'd love for the jazz to get him... but replacing boozer with brand, monroe/henry/haywood with turner, and getting really nothing for kirilenko isn't what i would call forward progress.
 
theNBAnerd said:
i'm a pretty big ET fan and i'd love for the jazz to get him... but replacing boozer with brand, monroe/henry/haywood with turner, and getting really nothing for kirilenko isn't what i would call forward progress.
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the Jazz could actually get nothing for both Boozer and Kirilenko, if they walk after their deals are up. what kind of forward progress would that be?

or they could re-sign Boozer for 6 years. would you rather have Boozer for 6 or Brand for 3?
 
NUMBERICA said:
I doubt it had/has to be paid in full in cash, I just think the stipulation is to pay the entirety of he contract and probably on the same pay schedule.

Why would paying the entire contract in full immediately be the rule?
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right. i don't think i said that... did i?
 
r_u_s_t_b_u_c_k_e_t said:
the Jazz could actually get nothing for both Boozer and Kirilenko, if they walk after their deals are up. what kind of forward progress would that be?

or they could re-sign Boozer for 6 years. would you rather have Boozer for 6 or Brand for 3?
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honestly, i'd rather have boozer for 6, and it isn't even close.
 
This has been brought up in another thread and I think it is a good point. The only real year the Brand contract would hurt us is year 2. We would be paying AK 18mil anyway this upcoming year so that is a wash and the 3rd year of his deal he would be a huge expiring contract to bring back hopefully some worthwhile assets (assuming the CBA remains somewhat the same). If he bounces back from the injuries it is icing on the cake. I say yes to get Turner.
 
Boozer's gone, dude. Jettison that entire aspect of your argument.

Also, I really don't think the Jazz are going to miss Headcase Drago. The difference in salary is actually closer to $30 million, not $50 million.

And the Jazz don't have to draft Turner. The 2nd pick is a hell of an asset that could be used to get something else (Lopez?, I'm sure NJ is more receptive considering they'd have their pick of two of Favors, Cousins, or Turner).
 
NUMBERICA said:
Boozer's gone, dude. Jettison that entire aspect of your argument.

Also, I really don't think the Jazz are going to miss Headcase Drago. The difference in salary is actually closer to $30 million, not $50 million.

And the Jazz don't have to draft Turner. The 2nd pick is a hell of an asset that could be used to get something else (Lopez?, I'm sure NJ is more receptive considering they'd have their pick of two of Favors, Cousins, or Turner).
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I love Favors but why would the Nets trade Lopez, who's fairly proven, for a guy who's not like Favors or the biggest lock to be a bust in the last 10 years, DeMarcus Cousins.
 
r_u_s_t_b_u_c_k_e_t said:
whatever. once all the recent champions locked in their one high draft pick guy, they filled in with FAs/trades and lucky low picks:

Lakers: Kobe + FAs/trades (Gasol, Odom, Artest/Ariza) + lucky low picks (Bynum)
Celtics: Pierce + FAs/trades (Garnett, Allen) + lucky low picks (Perkins, Rondo)
Spurs: Duncan + lucky low picks (Parker, Ginobili)

if Deron is our one high-pick guy, then KOC better figure out the FAs/trades and lucky low picks part of it (ie, draft a Bynum with this year's pick).
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Those teams built through the Draft and by making smart trades. They only used Free agency to fill in the gaps. Building through Free Agency usually means your paying Mercedes prices for a used Hyundai. Not one of your examples built the core of their team through Free Agency they used the draft. Whether it was lucky or smart does not matter they used the draft and trades to build not free agents. So next time you want to bash my post go ahead and use examples that disprove it instead of strengthening it.
 
gregbroncs said:
This is the reason the Jazz have never and are unlikely to ever win a title. You don't build the base of a championship through FA's. You do it through the draft with high draft picks.
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here are the key players on the two teams playing in the finals right now:

garnett: trade
allen: trade
pierce: 10th pick in the draft
rondo: 21st pick
davis: 35th pick
perkins: 27th pick
sheed: free agent
kobe: 13th pick
gasol: trade
odom: trade
artest: free agent
bynum: 10th pick
fisher: 24th pick

seems like these two teams were built using trades, free agents and low draft picks, in the same part of the draft the jazz have been picking in year after year.

after this draft the jazz will have TWO players that were picked higher than every one of those guys above.
 
What if we traded Okur + CJ + #9 + Memphis pick (which I believe is only a second rounder) for the Brand and #2 (Evan Turner). I do not think Boozer will resign with us nor do I want him to. Deron and Evan would give us the best backcourt in the league. Brand, Milsap and AK could reak havock defensively and I believe would give us many options offensively as well. AK's salary ends after one year, hopefully he signs for cheap giving the Jazz the space they need to be legit contenders. I believe this is better than the Trading AK deal because Memo's contract is longer and his skills are depreciating much quicker than AK's

Lineup

DWill, Price
Turner, Wesley Mathews, Price
AK, Wesley Mathews
Millsap, AK
Brand, Koufus

This would potentially be a better club than we put on the floor last year. We could be hamstringing ourselves if Brand never comes around but we've already done that with Okur anyways. At least were taking a chance rather than continuing to swim in mediocrity.

To fill out our roster we should buy additional picks from willing clubs. It seems that they've been really cheap in the last few years.
 
bezzerck said:
What if we traded Okur + CJ + #9 + Memphis pick (which I believe is only a second rounder) for the Brand and #2 (Evan Turner). I do not think Boozer will resign with us nor do I want him to. Deron and Evan would give us the best backcourt in the league. Brand, Milsap and AK could reak havock defensively and I believe would give us many options offensively as well. AK's salary ends after one year, hopefully he signs for cheap giving the Jazz the space they need to be legit contenders. I believe this is better than the Trading AK deal because Memo's contract is longer and his skills are depreciating much quicker than AK's

This would potentially be a better club than we put on the floor last year. We could be hamstringing ourselves if Brand never comes around but we've already done that with Okur anyways.
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I actually like this. I don't know what Philly'd take to get out from under Brand's contract, but I'd rather not include the #9 pick. And I like hanging onto AK. Okur is injured but his contract is shorter than Brand's and half the cost. Maybe they'd do it. I wonder how attractive CJ is to them.
 
BENTLEY said:
I actually like this. I don't know what Philly'd take to get out from under Brand's contract, but I'd rather not include the #9 pick. And I like hanging onto AK. Okur is injured but his contract is shorter than Brand's and half the cost. Maybe they'd do it. I wonder how attractive CJ is to them.
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What does Philly get out of this? Okur's lovely contract? The #9 pick? C'mon. They're not giving up the #2 for this. This is a strong draft and their fans would go ****ing ballistic if they traded away the #2 pick and the opportunity to draft Turner who's very marketable and would be a major ticket seller.
 
r_u_s_t_b_u_c_k_e_t said:
here are the key players on the two teams playing in the finals right now:

garnett: trade
allen: trade
pierce: 10th pick in the draft
rondo: 21st pick
davis: 35th pick
perkins: 27th pick
sheed: free agent
kobe: 13th pick
gasol: trade
odom: trade
artest: free agent
bynum: 10th pick
fisher: 24th pick

seems like these two teams were built using trades, free agents and low draft picks, in the same part of the draft the jazz have been picking in year after year.

after this draft the jazz will have TWO players that were picked higher than every one of those guys above.
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2 Players on your teams picked up through Free Agency and they are both older complimentary players and NOT THE MAIN GUYS. Again you prove my point for me. The Jazz will have 2 players picked above those guys but most of those trades were made using picks as good as or better than the ones Utah has had. Also both of those teams have 3 or more guys that they picked up via the 1st round. The Jazz meanwhile have 1 rotation player that was even a 1st round pick by anybody.

You seem to think I said trades are not the way to build a team and I did not. Trades are a great way to build a team. Free Agency is absolutely not the way to build a team. It can be used for a few player's not for the bulk of your lineup. You need to be smart in the draft, especially as a small market team like the Jazz.
 
Gregbroncs smashing the **** out of some baseballs here.

The Jazz cannot just let contracts expire and do nothing if they want to get better (and that appears to be the plan). I hate to sound like some of the buffoons, but it's true. At that point, what are the Jazz going to do with that supposed cap space anyway (they won't have the money to do anything, regardless of the Jazz's horrendous track-record)?
 
Oh, I know, they'll hope that they'll end up taking salary off of some other team's hands and get another unprotected draft pick from one of the worst franchises of the decade, right?
 
It's interesting to think about what types of bigger deals the Jazz could make with Booze, but the Jazz are almost certainly going to be looking to extract a cheaper asset for him, not take back his whole salary in sign and trade. Purely as a hypothetical, the Jazz and Miami could swap Beasley and Boozer. Say Boozer offers Miami a sweetheart deal starting at 11. Miami gives away 5 million in salary, and thus the advantage of adding Boozer by only cutting 6 million into their cap space. That leaves them with lots of room to maneuver in adding other pieces around Wade/Booze. Utah gets a useless 6 million dollar TPE, but gets something back for Booze. I'm not saying this deal would work, but it's the type of deal I expect--finding teams who have Cap Space who want to sign Boozer at a fraction of the Cap Cost for signing him outright.
 
And for what it's worth, Locke doesn't understand the CBA that well. He's thinking in a box. That is, he thinks the Jazz MUST take back Boozer's first year salary as per standard CBA trade rules. They don't, as long as the other team has Cap Space. The Rashard Lewis deal is a prime example. Seattle got a 9 or 10 million dollar TPE. They took back no salary.
 
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