Tonight's Real Storyline: Kanter v Jonas
- Thread starter BabyPeterzz
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Lenny Lennord
New Member
one of the bigger reasons the Jazz didn't draft JV was because his buyout was a possible tricky situation for the team that drafted him and he wasn't going to be available right away. i think that's why Cleveland passed on him too.
Archie Moses
Well-Known Member
The thing I like about Kanter is that he doesn't stop moving or working for the ball. A lot of rebounds that most guys wouldn't even give a shot at because they are positioned bad, Kanter will go up and often get a finger on it and then he'll have a tip match with the opposing player. From time to time, this will result in another member on the Jazz to get his tipped ball.
Freaking workhorse, baby.
Freaking workhorse, baby.
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AKMVP;442614[B said:
Enes actually hustles and plays defense so I think he can certainly be much better than a poor man's Jefferson in his career. Think of the Jazz's best years, the main half-court set was Karl Malone in the post. Jazz probably want to see if someone develops like him again. Mainly, I'd imagine they want to see if he can consistently pass, score, defend, and rebound well. It's a long process.
Enes is much better than Jonas, just because Jonas is more agile doesn't make him a better player than Kanter, Jonas will probably be an ok nba player, my guess is a good bench player who brings energy when he gets his minutes, but Enes has tools to become a much better post player. Jonas will only play good if he has good facilitators on his team, he cant do anything alone, but Enes can create his own shoot and has much more post up games.
Even Tyson Chandler scored a few when he was with C.Paul, so i expect Jonas to score decent numbers if he plays with a good pg, but other than that i think he will be an ordinary big man in this league. I would be disappointed and surprised though if Enes develops into anything less than Big Al with better defense, he can definitely be a much better player than Big Al in a few years given he gains enough mins to play. Its funny how people think he will be a poor mans Big Al
Even Tyson Chandler scored a few when he was with C.Paul, so i expect Jonas to score decent numbers if he plays with a good pg, but other than that i think he will be an ordinary big man in this league. I would be disappointed and surprised though if Enes develops into anything less than Big Al with better defense, he can definitely be a much better player than Big Al in a few years given he gains enough mins to play. Its funny how people think he will be a poor mans Big Al
The Black Swordsman
Well-Known Member
Draft Express said at the very worst Jonas will be as good as Omer Asik. I would be surprised if that is his ceiling.
Weezur
Well-Known Member
One thing about Kanter is his continual confidence. Remember-
In the Turkish League, first few games sucked back but then he got rolling.
In Summer League, his first few games sucked and he got back into it.
In Preseason, I recall the same pattern and he completely dominated one game from what I recall.
So judging him after one 30+ game is not accurate at all. I think he could dominate if he's given at least a couple more such games.
What's really worrying me about Kanter is his weight. He's not the rebounding machine he used to be and JV WAS out-muscling him at times in the game.
BTW- JV is big and scary out there. He sucked today and word is he hasn't been good. What I don't like about JV is I thought he was a great PnR man, but even with Calderon and Lowry (both or which are good PGs) he didn't get many opportunity from what I remember.
In the Turkish League, first few games sucked back but then he got rolling.
In Summer League, his first few games sucked and he got back into it.
In Preseason, I recall the same pattern and he completely dominated one game from what I recall.
So judging him after one 30+ game is not accurate at all. I think he could dominate if he's given at least a couple more such games.
What's really worrying me about Kanter is his weight. He's not the rebounding machine he used to be and JV WAS out-muscling him at times in the game.
BTW- JV is big and scary out there. He sucked today and word is he hasn't been good. What I don't like about JV is I thought he was a great PnR man, but even with Calderon and Lowry (both or which are good PGs) he didn't get many opportunity from what I remember.
Is it just me or does Kanter have to work on his cardio vascular a bit? He worked hard to lose all that weight, but his endurance looks suspect. I'm probably making excuses for reasons his rebounding had dropped when in fact it's due to his smaller frame now.
Thee Idiotic Minivan K
Well-Known Member
It's not often he plays that many minutes though, it could be a factor.
illyasova
Active Member
I do not think he can be as effective as Omer Asik on defense. Omer is one of the best defender as post defender, hep defender, P n R defender and all. Also he's 3rd in rebounding in whole NBA. Last his lateral quickness is just amazing for a 7 footer and you can not teach it. On offense Jonas is capable to score in digit numbers easily if he plays for a suitable team for him and avoids fouling this much.
Also, bigs have to run more floor than guards and if you have a big that hustles every play, never stops moving, they're most likely going to start getting gassed no matter what shape they're in. He can certainly work on it and get better, but running 260lbs all over the court is going to show signs of heavy breathing.
MVP
Well-Known Member
Well, that's what I was saying about Toronto being bad fit for JV. Even if you look at his highlights it is rarely pick and roll play which shows that Toronto is not using JV's biggest strength. Lowry actually is very overrated as PG. He is great fantasy player, gets his numbers but does not help his team in win columns. Does not involve other players enough, makes numerous dumb decisions and early shots, rarely passes after drives in the paint, it is always either some kind of floater or other stupid shot - all in all I would want him on my fantasy team, never want him on the Jazz - just not a good team player.. Calderon is a bit better when it comes to passing but this season he plays of the bench so not to many minutes with JV.
addictionary
Well-Known Member
CitizenofCapua
Well-Known Member
Come on now, PG spot is the least of their concerns.
Sorry dude but you're starting to create delusions again. Lowry is overrated? Look at his contract, (5.8 $ per year) look at what he did at Rockets for 3 years and look at what he is giving you right now. Dont you think its a fair deal for Raptors? Look at Stuckey or Lin if you want to see a real overrated pg. Raptors should be grateful to Daryl Morey who decided to pay Lin, double of Lowry getting from Raptors. And he was a good team player at Rockets last year where they slightly missed the playoffs with an average roster, so what made him a bad team player this year?
The problem with this Raptor team is their front court. Their winning record is not a surprise with that front court and its laughable that you missed that part. Definitely they will tank for Wiggins next year or Shabazz this year, cause their 3 spot is ****e. JV is still very young and raw. He get the starting job at the very first day, thanks to their deep and talented big men rotation. And you know about Bargs and his efficiency when he is on the court, im sure you watched enough Raptors game to see this.
The other delusion you have is "Toronto being bad fit for JV". Define bad fit.. A young big man who needs pt, game experience and the place where he getting it constantly as a starter is a bad fit? Dont think so. Dont let JV love biased you cause those delusions are funny.
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Jonas had 22 points, 7 rebounds, 3 assist, and 3 blocks against Duncan and the Spurs not too long ago.
His per 48 stats are pretty similar to Kanter's, but he averages double the assist and nearly half the TO's.
His per 48 stats are pretty similar to Kanter's, but he averages double the assist and nearly half the TO's.
MVP
Well-Known Member
Yeah Toronto is great in terms of minutes for JV, but they do not use his best strength - pick and roll at all. It would be same as you have great 3 pt shooter but insist of him posting up.
And sorry, but I have seen enough of Lowry to stick to my opinion. Great hustle, heart and competitive nature - no basketball IQ at all. For the price they paid of course he is decent PG, but to much chucking, gambling, stat padding and hero ball for my liking. He cost them numerous wins already this season, like vs Detroit for example. Actually Raptors offense and ball movement looked way better when he was on the bench with injury and Calderon was double double guy in all the games Lowry missed. You know, Lin would be way better fit for Toronto, just watch how he plays pick and roll to perfection. See how Asik's offensive numbers benefited from playing with Lin, Lowry is just not that good in pick and roll. Again maybe it is matter of taste but I like pass first PG's - to me Rondo is best PG right now in the league with C.Paul being second.
Agree about 3 spot for Raptors being weakest link, they hoped for Fields to be their solution but his hand injury ruined those plans. They needed to keep James Johnson, to bad he was a bit knucklehead, got into conflict with coach and was shipped out.
The Raptors have had a lot of injury problems too.
Lowry has been in and out and Fields (who would give them some consistency they lack) has been out all year.
I would think so. Both players show signs of being able to have midrange games. I guess perimeter defense would be a concern against athletic and stretch 4's though.
Weezur
Well-Known Member
Grass on the other side- Is it greener?
Toronto fans' point of view-
Source
by Buddahfan
Kanter, what 18 points Lit up Jonas big time. Kanter os definitely a force underneath but 18 points? He simple outworked and over powered Jonas.
Jonas – He needs some DNPs or should be sent to the D-League for a couple of weeks. When he plays again he should be coming off the bench. What really ticks me off about Casey is I have lost all confidence in him to tell the truth in his interviews. It all started with his BS statement at the beginning of the season, that Jonas had earned the starting job.v
by Buddahfan
No one likes to be exposed and Jonas exposes Andrea. Not intentionally but Jonas is a 20 year old rookie who is having enough trouble trying to acclimate hmself to the NBA, especially on defense. He has no time or ability at this point to help mask Andrea’s weaknesses.
I think if Jonas goes to the bench before or when the Raptors return home that they should play a lot better after he goes to the bench. We shall see what happens
by defensive rap
Move Jonas and Andrea to the bench
Not much talk about Enes vs. Jonas....guess they didn't see the hype
I guess Andrea is like their Jefferson. Surprise surprise, they hate their coach.
Toronto fans' point of view-
Source
by Buddahfan
Kanter, what 18 points Lit up Jonas big time. Kanter os definitely a force underneath but 18 points? He simple outworked and over powered Jonas.
Jonas – He needs some DNPs or should be sent to the D-League for a couple of weeks. When he plays again he should be coming off the bench. What really ticks me off about Casey is I have lost all confidence in him to tell the truth in his interviews. It all started with his BS statement at the beginning of the season, that Jonas had earned the starting job.v
by Buddahfan
No one likes to be exposed and Jonas exposes Andrea. Not intentionally but Jonas is a 20 year old rookie who is having enough trouble trying to acclimate hmself to the NBA, especially on defense. He has no time or ability at this point to help mask Andrea’s weaknesses.
I think if Jonas goes to the bench before or when the Raptors return home that they should play a lot better after he goes to the bench. We shall see what happens
by defensive rap
Move Jonas and Andrea to the bench
Not much talk about Enes vs. Jonas....guess they didn't see the hype
I guess Andrea is like their Jefferson. Surprise surprise, they hate their coach.
MVP
Well-Known Member
Thats some kind of BS fan view, doubt he even watched the game - look at all Kanter's points scored. He scored 2 pts vs JV, how is that "lit up"? He did all his damage vs Bargnani, Johnson or whoever else was guarding him. If we would look at production vs each other actually JV scored 4pts after Kanter fouled him twice so you could even say that JV won head to head matchup.
I could say same about game in Toronto, "look JV lit up Kanter for 10pts and Kanter had only 1", when in reality they did not even play vs each other.
True about coach. Very nice guy - no balls to bench chuckers Bargnani or Lowry when they suck. His love for playing Lowry and Calderon together down the stretch whom both are defensive liability cost them numerous games already ( vs Detroit and Charlotte for example, Raptors had lead ) could not defend Knight or Walker for game winning layups. I think he should not be head coach, perfect assistant but just not enough character to be head coach.