Can We Please Just Waive NWG?

[homeytennis]

The reason we have NWG is that DL got caught with his pants down with the Neto situation last summer and NWG slid into the salary slot that was needed.

 

[KqWIN]

I'm saying there are several bad assumptions here...

1- that every team is passing him
2- that teams are right when they move together in passing on a guy
3- there is something we don't know about him.


He is likely weighing some different offers. If that is the case it is rational to think the Jazz could and should step in with something better.

I am not whining about him specifically but that we don't bring in someone else with a better shot at contributing. Like if Mike goes down for the season who are you more comfortable with... Neto or NWG? Neto would cost the same amount. The only reason we hang on to him is he's DL pet project.

Its just ****ing maddening that for two years I said they should decline TB's option and folks here defend how he is getting better and look at the G League numbers and yada yada. But we hold on to him as a DL pet project. Then we pay to dump him. The only reason DL is keeping NWG here is he is a pet project and its easier than doing something else. But again JazzFanzers are all "lolz this aint about basketball reference and DL is unquestionably doing the right thing all the time".

I apologize that I have a brain and don't trust the front office in every aspect and am not afraid to say it.

Again...you thinking I'm caping for the FO. How many times must I explicitly say I would drop NWG and sign someone else in a heartbeat. I agree, we should pick up someone. But I also like reason and I don't whine for no reason. If you think the reason why players remained unsigned by 30 teams is that there is something specific about the Jazz...that's just whining to whine and venting out other frustrations about the Jazz FO.

I've said my piece, several times explicitly. But I guess I don't have a brain and I'm just caping for the FO no matter what I say. This is an actual circular discussion.

 

[KqWIN]

I’m not certain why what anyone else is doing is relevant, though. Nobody else wanted Ingles and Royce. So what? If your wife slept with the plumber, does it matter if he slept with half the neighborhood’s wives as well, or are you just trying to whine about your wife?

It's relevant if you think it's a Jazz specific issue. There's an assertion that this refusal to sign a different player is a pattern than plagues the Jazz. If all 30 teams are making the same decision, it's not Jazz specific. That does not mean everyone is right on passing on these unsigned players, it simply means that the decision to pass on these players is not specific to the Jazz. If you can't understand that, I have nothing else for you.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Again...you thinking I'm caping for the FO. How many times must I explicitly say I would drop NWG and sign someone else in a heartbeat. I agree, we should pick up someone. But I also like reason and I don't whine for no reason. If you think the reason why players remained unsigned by 30 teams is that there is something specific about the Jazz...that's just whining to whine and venting out other frustrations about the Jazz FO.

I've said my piece, several times explicitly. But I guess I don't have a brain and I'm just caping for the FO no matter what I say. This is an actual circular discussion.

WTF are we talking about and where did I say this was a Jazz specific argument? Why does that matter? Why can’t I say we should cut NWG without it being whining.

 

[KqWIN]

WTF are we talking about and where did I say this was a Jazz specific argument? Why does that matter? Why can’t I say we should cut NWG without it being whining.

IDK, maybe the multiple times where you said this fits into a pattern that the Jazz have. Being reactive, casting a narrow net, being lazy...The other guy said that this is only a complaint he has with the Jazz because of our fit.

How about you tell me when I made those assumptions? I didn't, expect for the third one because it obvious. Of course NBA teams have more intel than fans. Did I say it makes them right? No. Did I make the assumption that every team is passing on him? No, I explicitly said that he could have offers. Did I explicitly say that the fact that teams are right if they collectively pass on him? No. I explicitly said I would sign him several times and that I disagree with the league.

If you remember, this all started out with simply saying that there's probably something we don't know about Shaq. Could be Shaq already having offers in hand. Could be something in his background. Could be that teams just don't think he's good. Never said I agreed with it, but there is something more at hand here. Whatever it is, it isn't something specific to the Jazz. For all we know, the Jazz could be begging to sign him for the full BAE.

And why does this matter? It doesn't really. I'm just saying that this assertion that this is all the "status quo" for the Jazz doesn't really make sense. But I guess that makes me a stan for the FO.

 

[homeytennis]

I noticed the Jazz have another camp body: Trevon Bluiett signed an exhibit 10 contract right at the same time the Clipps signed Rayjohn Tucker ironically.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

IDK, maybe the multiple times where you said this fits into a pattern that the Jazz have. Being reactive, casting a narrow net, being lazy...The other guy said that this is only a complaint he has with the Jazz because of our fit.

Whatevs on the other stuff. They are reactive though... not gonna recount the whole history of it... but it’s kind of a fact. They do cast a narrow net. Look at all the after draft interviews... look at how Locke and others tell you who they are going to pick before it happens. Hell DL will basically tell you we “got our target” after the draft. He literally said he didn’t like the guys left on the board so they sold a pick in the early second round. He drafts guys from the big ranked programs. He pulled Royce out because he played at Baylor.

DL basically runs 1-2 years late on every change he should make... it isn’t hindsight either I’ve called it multiple times as it happens.

Not sure what to tell you... I don’t think he’s an A+ GM. Not cutting NWG for a better option will be his most recent non-proactive move that will come back to haunt us.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

DL is on record saying that he does not like the off-season and the trade deadline because he does not like moving people and the whole relationship thing. Of course, you could say this is just PR speak, but every single move he makes (or doesn't make, rather) screams this. The question is, to what degree do we sacrifice improvement to accommodate this?

He’s on record as basically telling us he doesn’t cast a wide net too. People don’t listen though.

 

[gomretat]

He’s on record as basically telling us he doesn’t cast a wide net too. People don’t listen though.

People definitely see what they want to see and hear what they want to hear. My two cents - I would not every argue he makes all the right choices but he is at the top of the list in brining in possible draft picks and running off season camps to find diamonds in the rough.

 

[infection]

The reason we have NWG is that DL got caught with his pants down with the Neto situation last summer and NWG slid into the salary slot that was needed.

We paid more for NWG than Neto got. We got NWG becayse apparently some teams inquired about his rights and that seemed to validate DL drafting him. I would be lying if I said I didn’t think a decent amount of reverse psychology played into that decision.

 

[NUMBERICA]

OK...everyone wants something good from the unwanted pile. NWG is in the unwanted pile so that is a totally moot point. Again, there are 30 NBA teams. It’s not just UTA that is passing from him.

I would drop NWG and sign Shaq in a heartbeat. Would have done the same for RHJ who only got a camp deal. But I live in the real world and know that there’s more to it than bball-ref page and some YouTube highlights.

It doesn’t mean Shaq is actually bad. Several players have been dumped from one or multiple teams and gone on to find success. Just saying that there is a reason why Shaq is in the position he’s in...and it’s likely intel we don’t know about.

The list of guys that 30 teams passed on is too long for me to bother compiling. Two names that matter are Joe Ingles and Royce O’Neale.

It happens.

 

[KqWIN]

Whatevs on the other stuff. They are reactive though... not gonna recount the whole history of it... but it’s kind of a fact. They do cast a narrow net. Look at all the after draft interviews... look at how Locke and others tell you who they are going to pick before it happens. Hell DL will basically tell you we “got our target” after the draft. He literally said he didn’t like the guys left on the board so they sold a pick in the early second round. He drafts guys from the big ranked programs. He pulled Royce out because he played at Baylor.

DL basically runs 1-2 years late on every change he should make... it isn’t hindsight either I’ve called it multiple times as it happens.

Not sure what to tell you... I don’t think he’s an A+ GM. Not cutting NWG for a better option will be his most recent non-proactive move that will come back to haunt us.

I don’t think DL is an A+ GM either, but I guess anything I will say will make me a DL Stan or simply “whatevs”. Even if I say the exact opposite. Like I could literally say DL is a terrible GM, and I will still be called a fanboy. Whatevs, I like talking Jazz basketball.

I’m very critical of DL and all things Jazz in general, but I like my criticism to be fair. Otherwise I’m just a fan complaining to complain.

I don’t think the FO is always reactive. It’s not a fact. I can also give you several examples of when they were not. Seriously, look at the rotation and see how many of those guys were “reactive”.

Theres no doubt that DL targets guys in the draft, and he gets them. It’s how we’ve know. Who were picking before the draft every year. But that in itself is a very active mindset. Trading up to get the guys. Buying picks to select them. Reaching for them. I don’t know how those can be seen as reactive moves.

There is so much valid criticism to throw at DL. It bothers me when the criticism is just mush, standard run of the mill fan criticism. Every fanbase wants their GMs to be more aggressive, play the young guys, make a big trade. Yada yada yada....there’s nothing unique about this. No different than talking to fans who actually think everything is roses.

 

[The Fresh Prince]

JC and Andre Roberson are both products of the same high school. #Wagner

 

[KqWIN]

The list of guys that 30 teams passed on is too long for me to bother compiling. Two names that matter are Joe Ingles and Royce O’Neale.

It happens.

Yup, happens all the time. Being in the bargain bin doesn’t mean you belong there. Jazz have actually done fairly well there. O’Neale + Ingles were good finds.

Before FVV’s new deal, I believe those two were the highest paid UDFA in the league (s/o weak player renegotiation) ...and they weren’t obvious finds.

 

[infection]

Here is a much better way of conceptualizing this issue:

Who is a better player / who would you rather have: Exum or Shaq?

For argument’s sake let’s even say one prefers Exum. How much more? What percentage of what Exum gives you can Shaq give you?

Now let’s talk about the fact that we’re discussing signing Shaq for a nominal amount. All non-financial sacrifices aside, we were willing to pay Exum $10M a year for three years for those services, and seemingly did so happily.

I’m not entirely certain why bringing a guy like Shaq (or RHJ or Roberson, etc.) for a close to minimum deal is controversial, or that thinking we’re dense if we don’t consider it is somehow a fanboy argument and just FO hating.

$30M for Exum.

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

As long as

Optimism gets you what? I’m calling it as I see it. You can eat drink breathe optimism it won’t make NWG good... didn’t work with TB.

ya, but at the end of the day he won’t play so I don’t really want to dwell on the fact he hasn’t been cut, there isn’t even a need for him to play with DM Conley, Infgles and JC all on the roster

 

[KqWIN]

Here is a much better way of conceptualizing this issue:

Who is a better player / who would you rather have: Exum or Shaq?

For argument’s sake let’s even say one prefers Exum. How much more? What percentage of what Exum gives you can Shaq give you?

Now let’s talk about the fact that we’re discussing signing Shaq for a nominal amount. All non-financial sacrifices aside, we were willing to pay Exum $10M a year for three years for those services, and seemingly did so happily.

I’m not entirely certain why bringing a guy like Shaq (or RHJ or Roberson, etc.) for a close to minimum deal is controversial, or that thinking we’re dense if we don’t consider it is somehow a fanboy argument and just FO hating.

$30M for Exum.

I’m not against it at all. It’s not a controversial either. Like I said before, Shaq is the worst kept secret online. Lowe just made a joke on a podcast on how every fan went crazy when CHI didn’t extend him a QO.

I simply said that there’s something we don’t know about Shaq’s situation. Could be many things. But the idea that this is a UTA specific issue...yeah that doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.

Never disagreed with the idea of signing Shaq or another defensive player. I think it’s laughable that we’re taking this so seriously and using this is a prime example of the FO incompetence. You don’t have to look hard for that.

 

[latin jazz]

IDK, maybe the multiple times where you said this fits into a pattern that the Jazz have. Being reactive, casting a narrow net, being lazy...The other guy said that this is only a complaint he has with the Jazz because of our fit.

How about you tell me when I made those assumptions? I didn't, expect for the third one because it obvious. Of course NBA teams have more intel than fans. Did I say it makes them right? No. Did I make the assumption that every team is passing on him? No, I explicitly said that he could have offers. Did I explicitly say that the fact that teams are right if they collectively pass on him? No. I explicitly said I would sign him several times and that I disagree with the league.

If you remember, this all started out with simply saying that there's probably something we don't know about Shaq. Could be Shaq already having offers in hand. Could be something in his background. Could be that teams just don't think he's good. Never said I agreed with it, but there is something more at hand here. Whatever it is, it isn't something specific to the Jazz. For all we know, the Jazz could be begging to sign him for the full BAE.

And why does this matter? It doesn't really. I'm just saying that this assertion that this is all the "status quo" for the Jazz doesn't really make sense. But I guess that makes me a stan for the FO.

People forget this is not 2K. We may want to bring Shaq but there could many different factors playing into his FA decission. His agent might be asking for the BAE. He could be looking for minutes or a specific system, coaching style. He may want to play in a big market. There could be personality issues we don't know about. On the other hand, yeah, NWG sucks and I'm surprised de couldn't find a better prospect (some talk about Neto but the guy got cut, so he might hold some grudge, who knows). We make too many assumptions about the FO activity/lack of it, but we can only see so far (basically, judge the outcome). Having said that, there has been a few headscratchers decisions and poor asset management this offseason

PS: freaking phone is autocorrecting every single word into another language so forgive the typos

 

[infection]

As long as

ya, but at the end of the day he won’t play so I don’t really want to dwell on the fact he hasn’t been cut, there isn’t even a need for him to play with DM Conley, Infgles and JC all on the roster

This is a red herring because he won’t play precisely because he shouldn’t play. Hell, even when we had Conley our with injury he still didn’t play. I’ve already made the point that it didn’t matter if Neto was injured half the time you needed him because NWG wouldn’t get minutes in 100% of the times that you’d reach for Neto. So NWG never seeing the floor is distorting the potential for that spot.

Ingles and Royce were brought in as those guys.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I’m not against it at all. It’s not a controversial either. Like I said before, Shaq is the worst kept secret online. Lowe just made a joke on a podcast on how every fan went crazy when CHI didn’t extend him a QO.

I simply said that there’s something we don’t know about Shaq’s situation. Could be many things. But the idea that this is a UTA specific issue...yeah that doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.

Never disagreed with the idea of signing Shaq or another defensive player. I think it’s laughable that we’re taking this so seriously and using this is a prime example of the FO incompetence. You don’t have to look hard for that.

K just hit pause then until the thing we don’t know becomes known.