What's new
By:
Filters

Coronavirus

@Beer

"And how many have died? If basically none of them have died, should they even be in the hospital to begin with? I don't know. I do know that the entire economy cannot shut down for 30, 60, or 90 days. It is not an option. It will hurt far more than a bunch of deaths would"

I was just as struck by the extent of lung damage suffered by survivors, frankly, and all ages. Significant reduction in quality of life will be the case in severe cases that survive, based on a few studies I've read. I'm not sure what you mean by if someone didn't die, did they belong in a hospital? When I've suffered heart attacks, they took me to a hospital. I never thought of saying "never mind, fellas, I'm good".

They've been admitting people with life threatening conditions. Around here, anyway. Most hospitals do that. I think that's a function of hospitals, saving lives. Some survive, some don't. Once we reach overload, they will have to make the hard choices that America's doctors only know from war, and most here will not have had that experience of "this one we can try, this one no". But yeah, life threatening conditions, at least in a civilized society, usually qualifies a human being for admission to a hospital.
 
The Thriller said:
View attachment 9065

Alrighty then. Nothing more to discuss here. Wait...

just a question out of curiosity, be honest, how many books do you read per year? Are they mostly fiction or nonfiction. I’d appreciate it if you’d answer this as honestly as possible. I was talking to my wife about this earlier and want to test my thesis.
Click to expand...
Your thesis is that people who disagree with you are uneducated ignorant yokels, amirght?
 
Red said:
@Beer

"And how many have died? If basically none of them have died, should they even be in the hospital to begin with? I don't know. I do know that the entire economy cannot shut down for 30, 60, or 90 days. It is not an option. It will hurt far more than a bunch of deaths would"

I was just as struck by the extent of lung damage suffered by survivors, frankly, and all ages. Significant reduction in quality of life will be the case in severe cases that survive, based on a few studies I've read. I'm not sure what you mean by if someone didn't die, did they belong in a hospital? When I've suffered heart attacks, they took me to a hospital. I never thought of saying "never mind, fellas, I'm good".

They've been admitting people with life threatening conditions. Around here, anyway. Most hospitals do that. I think that's a function of hospitals, saving lives. Some survive, some don't. Once we reach overload, they will have to make the hard choices that America's doctors only know from war, and most here will not have had that experience of "this one we can try, this one no". But yeah, life threatening conditions, at least in a civilized society, usually qualifies a human being for admission to a hospital.
Click to expand...

That’s what I’m saying. If literally no one in that age range is dying is it really a life threatening condition? For them at least.
 
Gameface said:
Your thesis is that people who disagree with you are uneducated ignorant yokels, amirght?
Click to expand...

no.

Reading helps others see from different perspectives. Ray Bradbury believed that reading fiction especially, helped others gain empathy.

There’s a large part of America that lacks empathy. I wonder if part of that could be related to american adults not reading enough books?

and I’m sorry if I disagree with killing Americans in attempts to restart the economy for trumps reelection. Most experts agree with me btw. But Thanks for the thoughtful and tolerant discussion. Not sure why my question @Beer elicited such a response from you? Weird post.
 
Last edited:
To those of you who think that we can restart the economy at the expense of our health, Here are some actual experts who know their stuff:









We can either listen to the experts or turn this into another tired red state Vs Libtard argument.
 
The Thriller said:
View attachment 9065

Alrighty then. Nothing more to discuss here. Wait...

just a question out of curiosity, be honest, how many books do you read per year? Are they mostly fiction or nonfiction. I’d appreciate it if you’d answer this as honestly as possible. I was talking to my wife about this earlier and want to test my thesis.
Click to expand...
Come on man, you can't diagnose people based off how many non fiction books they read.
That's called stereotyping and is wrong

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app
 
Beer said:
That’s what I’m saying. If literally no one in that age range is dying is it really a life threatening condition? For them at least.
Click to expand...
I think you missed his point.
Dying or living doesn't determine whether something is a life threatening condition.


Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app
 
The Thriller said:
no.

Reading helps others see from different perspectives. Ray Bradbury believed that reading fiction especially, helped others gain empathy.

There’s a large part of America that lacks empathy. I wonder if part of that could be related to american adults not reading enough books?

and I’m sorry if I disagree with killing Americans in attempts to restart the economy for trumps reelection. Most experts agree with me btw. But Thanks for the thoughtful and tolerant discussion. Not sure why my question @Beer elicited such a response from you? Weird post.
Click to expand...
I watched this movie tonight with my wife and daughter called Onward. We both (me and the wife) got tears in our eyes and felt plenty of empathy.
I don't read any non fiction books. Ever. I still have tons of empathy. I have logic too and an ability to suppress my emotions at times and think past those emotions to see a better outcome. Doesn't make anyone unfeeling or immoral or evil or anything.

Try being more compassionate for people who are different politically that you otherwise you start to look hypocritical.

I appreciate much of what you have to say. But your soapbox is too high and your self awareness could use some work in my humble opinion.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app
 
The Thriller said:
To those of you who think that we can restart the economy at the expense of our health, Here are some actual experts who know their stuff:









We can either listen to the experts or turn this into another tired red state Vs Libtard argument.
Click to expand...


I’m saying he is an expert in one vertical and maybe, extremely likely, he doesn’t understand the ramifications on the other parts of the equation here.

I’m most certainly not a conservative but I don’t consider myself a liberal either. I’m not making this a right vs left issue.
 
This seems alarming to me, especially since reading reports of the risk of death if too much is taken.

https://www.deseret.com/utah/2020/3...hloroquine-chloroquine-malaria-treatment-utah

SALT LAKE CITY — Utahns who pass an online screening would be able to get malaria drugs at a pharmacy to treat the new coronavirus under a standing order currently being drafted, Utah Department of Health Deputy Director Dr. Marc E. Babitz said Monday.

“I’ve seen enough evidence of benefits to make it worth trying,” Babitz, a family physician, told the Deseret News, adding he doesn’t agree with critics who say there hasn’t been enough study yet on the use of hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine in treating the symptoms of COVID-19.

“In a situation like this that we’re in today, I disagree with my academic colleagues. If we weren’t in a crisis, if this wasn’t a major concern, a worldwide pandemic, I’d say, ‘You know what, let’s wait. Let’s wait. Let’s find some people who have this. Let’s do that double-blind, placebo controlled, they call it crossover trial,’” he said.

The drugs, also used to treat lupus and rheumatoid arthritis, don’t prevent someone from catching the deadly virus, but for those that have it, Babitz said, “there’s some preliminary evidence that it will slow things down to give your body a chance to develop better immunity and help prevent complications.”

The standing order, which would need to be signed by the health department’s executive director, Dr. Joseph Miner, would allow Utahns to bypass their own doctors and use a new online screening tool that’s still being finalized to determine if they can receive the drugs directly from a pharmacist, Babitz said.

Currently, the drugs can be prescribed for off-label use. President Donald Trump has urged they be deployed, comments that have sparked panic-buying and overdoses around the world, as well as warnings about their use in combating the effects of the virus, according to a report by the Wall Street Journal published Monday.

But Babitz said the drugs would be taken for between five and seven days and have a “very, very low” risk for patients. He said the health department still has to resolve legal issues between the state and the company that runs the screening tool, as well as details of how this would work with pharmacies.

“We need to do it responsibly, so there are issues. But we’re working as hard as we can to iron them out. Our goal actually was to have the documents signed today,” he said. Besides the standing order for the medicines to be dispensed, there needs to be an emergency rule in place and a memorandum of understanding with the company.

A spokeswoman for Gov. Gary Herbert said an announcement could come this week.

Senate President Stuart Adams, R-Layton, is also backing what he sees as a way to ease the pandemic’s strain on hospitals as the number of cases in Utah continues to climb. Adams and a group of state and business leaders held a news conference last week about the potential of the drugs.

“We need some good news. We need some hope. I believe this is good news,” he said.

Dan Richards, a pharmacist who has helped put together the plan for getting the drugs to Utahns, said close to $1 million has been spent acquiring the raw chemical powder that can be compounded into the drug. For now, he said, it’s a humanitarian effort.

“We’ll figure it out on the back end,” said Richards, the owner of Meds in Motion, a chain of pharmacies with five locations in Utah. “We are not a state-appointed, organized task force. We are just a bunch of people who raised our hands and said something had to be done.”

He acknowledged there is some doubt about the drugs.

“Not everyone’s on board yet and that’s tough,” Richards said, adding there just isn’t enough time for the usual medical studies. “This is not the cure. This is not the solution. This is the best available treatment based on the knowledge we have.”




Sent from my moto z3 using JazzFanz mobile app
 
I have been in Shanghai for more than a week so here's what they are doing. You will scan a qr code and register for quarantine in the compound you live in. If you violate your 14 day quarantine they will know, they can track you tru your phone. They sometimes have a device in installed on your door, when you open it it will alert the security then they'll call you or be at your doorstep.
 
Beer said:
That’s what I’m saying. If literally no one in that age range is dying is it really a life threatening condition? For them at least.
Click to expand...

There's is no cure, but I suspect, in severe cases among younger Americans, simply staying at home when they discover they are losing their ability to breath, might not lead to the best case ending. I'm not sure how easy it is to self administer a ventilator at home?
 
The Thriller said:
Thread worth reading

Click to expand...


Who was it that said "evil is banal?" ( It was, of course, Hannah Arendt ).

If Trump does this, and many more Americans die, we can be certain that Trump will, once more say "I am not responsible for any of this at all" After the fact. I know, personally, in the months leading to the 2016 election, I often thought "evil is banal, and Donald Trump is both banal AND evil". I did not see this pandemic coming, but I felt certain something would happen, if he were elected, that would show everyone exactly how evil.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/23/business/trump-coronavirus-economy.html

“Our country wasn’t built to be shut down,” Mr. Trump said during a briefing at the White House. “America will, again, and soon, be open for business. Very soon. A lot sooner than three or four months that somebody was suggesting. Lot sooner. We cannot let the cure be worse than the problem itself....."

......“You can’t call off the best weapon we have, which is social isolation, even out of economic desperation, unless you’re willing to be responsible for a mountain of deaths,” said Arthur Caplan, a professor of bioethics at NYU Langone Medical Center. “Thirty days makes more sense than 15 days. Can’t we try to put people’s lives first for at least a month?”
 
Last edited:
We need to shut down the economy for 30 days and tell everyone it is 30 days, not 31, not 32. Not just certain areas, everywhere. If you contain the outbreak in Pennsylvania and not Ohio, it is not easy to see the outcome. Unless people are idiots, this will flatten the curve.
Part of the announcement, we announce the "economy restart" plan with a specific timeline starting on day 31.

During the 30 days:

  1. conduct massive testing
  2. develop industry-specific and company-specific mitigation plans that limit spreading and restart business.
After 30 days, implement the industry-specific plans and put the people back to work who have been cleared as tested clean or with immunity.
  1. Keep social distancing, but people are back to work
  2. Keep high risk people at home until we have a vaccine and give them financial assistance
We need a simple, clear plan with a timeline. What is killing us now is the lack of coherent strategy at the national level, so that state and local govts are driving the agenda. The uncertainty is killing us (figuratively). Companies do not know what to do and how to plan without a vision for where we are going as a country. If we put out a sensible national plan that appropriately balances economic factors, the country would get behind it and the uncertainty would be largely eliminated.
 
fishonjazz said:
I understand that those numbers don't make sense to you. They don't make sense to me either. I don't think either of us are mathematicians, scientists, doctors, statisticians etc though.
So I'm not gonna simply poo poo numbers away when those numbers come from someone who specializes in that kind of thing.

Gravity doesn't make sense to me. I trust that it exists though and that there are those who can explain it.
Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app
Click to expand...
Gravity = @fishonjazz fall down go boom




You're welcome
 
silesian said:
We need to shut down the economy for 30 days and tell everyone it is 30 days, not 31, not 32. Not just certain areas, everywhere. If you contain the outbreak in Pennsylvania and not Ohio, it is not easy to see the outcome. Unless people are idiots, this will flatten the curve.
Part of the announcement, we announce the "economy restart" plan with a specific timeline starting on day 31.

During the 30 days:

  1. conduct massive testing
  2. develop industry-specific and company-specific mitigation plans that limit spreading and restart business.
After 30 days, implement the industry-specific plans and put the people back to work who have been cleared as tested clean or with immunity.
  1. Keep social distancing, but people are back to work
  2. Keep high risk people at home until we have a vaccine and give them financial assistance
We need a simple, clear plan with a timeline. What is killing us now is the lack of coherent strategy at the national level, so that state and local govts are driving the agenda. The uncertainty is killing us (figuratively). Companies do not know what to do and how to plan without a vision for where we are going as a country. If we put out a sensible national plan that appropriately balances economic factors, the country would get behind it and the uncertainty would be largely eliminated.
Click to expand...

Dude we're locked down for 6 months and our healthcare system ***** on yours from a great height. Look at 6 to 9 months of shutdown, plan for it now.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top