Its Time to Tank

[Handlogten's Heros]

I do agree with you that we have some differing definitions of Tanking. Bottom line is this is a sellers market so any players we are looking to bring in (OG or Collins) will be really expensive this year. 3 firsts for OG, what has he done in this league to deserve that price tag!? So in a sellers market the best decision is probably to sell off valuable veterans. We've already ran out of minutes with talented players sitting on the bench.

You can't really swap pieces in a sellers market... that becomes really difficult because the buyers are willing to pay more. Likely not the best use of our assets.

There is nothing we'd be selling off that we could not go and acquire... look at effing Detroit... they got paid to take Noel and Burks... they got Bogey for free.

There are no guarantees we find replacements but we will get value in selling them off, value in our draft pick being better this year, get value in adding FA or renting out the space... If we lose 5 more games than we would have running it back with some additional rookies (who would rot on the bench if we keep everyone) then who flipping cares.

 

[sip]

I dont think its possible so no need to discuss that version of tanking. The version of tanking that I would discuss is trade the vets and playing the youth. That version of tanking doesn't hurt our win loss record next season at all imo and I think it actually improves our record next year. Might hurt our record this season slightly which gives us a better draft pick and helps our record even more next season.

Yep. The version of tanking that most of us are talking about is a full youth movement with our youngsters and parting out most of the vets. I think that could lock us firmly in that 6 to 9 range for the draft with added possibility of jumping up in the lottery but not expected. Also giving the youngsters heavy minutes the rest of the season should give us a good idea of what direction we need to go in the draft and free agency.

 

[fishonjazz]

Yep. The version of tanking that most of us are talking about is a full youth movement with our youngsters and parting out most of the vets. I think that could lock us firmly in that 6 to 9 range for the draft with added possibility of jumping up in the lottery but not expected. Also giving the youngsters heavy minutes the rest of the season should give us a good idea of what direction we need to go in the draft and free agency.

I agree with all of this but I think the youth movement still gets us into the play-in game or lower seed in the playoffs (6 or 7)
Maybe I believe in the young guys too much (probably) and think our vets are worse than they are (also likely) but thats how i honestly feel. I dont think we see much dropoff at all by trading KO, conley, and gay. Im fine with that. Also fine with a big dropoff. Season of win win.
I think the only way we lose this season is to keep all the vets, keep giving them big minutes and go into off season with less of a sure direction and less information on who to draft or acquire in free agency or trade due to not knowing what we have with the youngsters.

 

[MT Steve]

I think the only way we lose this season is to keep all the vets, keep giving them big minutes and go into off season with less of a sure direction and less information on who to draft or acquire in free agency or trade due to not knowing what we have with the youngsters.

Ah yes, the Corbin Special.

 

[Elizah Huge]

I agree with all of this but I think the youth movement still gets us into the play-in game or lower seed in the playoffs (6 or 7)
Maybe I believe in the young guys too much (probably) and think our vets are worse than they are (also likely) but thats how i honestly feel. I dont think we see much dropoff at all by trading KO, conley, and gay. Im fine with that. Also fine with a big dropoff. Season of win win.
I think the only way we lose this season is to keep all the vets, keep giving them big minutes and go into off season with less of a sure direction and less information on who to draft or acquire in free agency or trade due to not knowing what we have with the youngsters.

Yeah, I don’t think trading guys off will hurt us as much as people think. Sexton is still super underrated on this board. We have been perfectly fine without KO already. If we trade Beasley and Ochai gets his minutes are we really going to drop off much if at all? I don’t think so.

We would have to trade Clarkson and Conley while getting nothing of significance back player wise to really do anything in my opinion.

 

[Elizah Huge]

Sexton/Markkanen/Kessler have played 178 minutes together this season and their net rating is +12.2. That is a small sample size I know but damn that’s really good.

 

[HermanG]

I do agree with you that we have some differing definitions of Tanking. Bottom line is this is a sellers market so any players we are looking to bring in (OG or Collins) will be really expensive this year. 3 firsts for OG, what has he done in this league to deserve that price tag!? So in a sellers market the best decision is probably to sell off valuable veterans. We've already ran out of minutes with talented players sitting on the bench.

You can't really swap pieces in a sellers market... that becomes really difficult because the buyers are willing to pay more. Likely not the best use of our assets.

Selling and not buying when prices are high is a very good argument which I also have considered.

But sometimes discussing subjects like this is hard when you just argue 3 FRPs are too much. FRPs are not all equal.

What if they are projected 20+? Youd rather take 3 guys at 20+ who youd try and develop into legit NBA 2 way starters? How many 2 way wing defender types are drafted per year? How many pan out?

OG is 6th in DPOY odds.. and was leading but top team guys have since passed him since Raptors are bad. So a top 6 defender in the league or better even. Only one younger than him above him on the list is JJJ... #5 overall pick (Bam is 1 day older lol).

 

[Elizah Huge]

Sexton/Markkanen/Kessler have played 178 minutes together this season and their net rating is +12.2. That is a small sample size I know but damn that’s really good.

Sexton/Clarkson/Markkanen have played 342 minutes together and their net rating is +14.1. Even better.

 

[Elizah Huge]

Here are our best 4-player lineups in net rating on the season out of 27 total lineups with a minimum of 85 minutes played together:

Sexton/Clarkson/Markkanen/Kessler +20.1

Sexton/Clarkson/Markkanen/Olynyk +16.6

Conley/Clarkson/Markkanen/Kessler +11.4

Sexton/Clarkson/Markkanen/Vanderbilt +10.6

Conley/Beasley/Markkanen/Kessler +10.4

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Yeah, I don’t think trading guys off will hurt us as much as people think. Sexton is still super underrated on this board. We have been perfectly fine without KO already. If we trade Beasley and Ochai gets his minutes are we really going to drop off much if at all? I don’t think so.

We would have to trade Clarkson and Conley while getting nothing of significance back player wise to really do anything in my opinion.

I think if you move Mike/KO/Vando/Beasley I think there will be some significant slippage... even though the guys can be somewhat replaced. You figure one or two small injuries and you are playing G League dudes. Honestly though... that is part of the process we should embrace right now. Swap 10 minutes a night of Gay for Simone or Potter for hells sake. Do a little research on these guys. I don't think we get to like 6-7 draft range... its more like 9-10ish if we can manage some guys. I also am not sure we trade all those guys unless its the Westbrook super deal.

I think chances of guys being moved are as follows:

- Vando - 90%
- Beasley - 65%
- Gay - 50%
- Mike - 35%
- KO - 25%
- JC - 15% - The team I am looking at is Milwaukee... an unprotected pick and Beauchamp is fairly appealing and they need to go all in.

 

[Elizah Huge]

I think if you move Mike/KO/Vando/Beasley I think there will be some significant slippage... even though the guys can be somewhat replaced. You figure one or two small injuries and you are playing G League dudes. Honestly though... that is part of the process we should embrace right now. Swap 10 minutes a night of Gay for Simone or Potter for hells sake. Do a little research on these guys. I don't think we get to like 6-7 draft range... its more like 9-10ish if we can manage some guys. I also am not sure we trade all those guys unless its the Westbrook super deal.

I think chances of guys being moved are as follows:

- Vando - 90%
- Beasley - 65%
- Gay - 50%
- Mike - 35%
- KO - 25%
- JC - 15% - The team I am looking at is Milwaukee... an unprotected pick and Beauchamp is fairly appealing and they need to go all in.

I highly doubt we’d move four guys without getting any decent players in return.

 

[HermanG]

I dont think its possible so no need to discuss that version of tanking. The version of tanking that I would discuss is trade the vets and playing the youth. That version of tanking doesn't hurt our win loss record next season at all imo and I think it actually improves our record next year. Might hurt our record this season slightly which gives us a better draft pick and helps our record even more next season.

That I do not mind discussing. But I still argue that getting a piece that might gel with Lauri and Kessler and putting them on the court to build chemistry now is a better way to build for the future from the point we are at.

Maybe we make the playoffs and turns out the opponent comes up with a great plan to stop Lauri as he plays now. Would be nice to get that info ASAP so he knows where to focus his development effort... dont you think?

I like the prospect of adding PF now. PG will have to wait since I dont like any of the names out there and that is by far the most crucial part especially if we get OG or Collins.