John Stockton Claims He Had Proof of 1000 Athletes Dying of Vaccine

[fishonjazz]

It is the mainstream position.
Excess death by heart attacks. Heart issues and strokes. They all die by every reason but the vaccine.
This is not an open discussion. You even see it on this forum. Calling everyone names who bring up the possibility that vaccines could be a cause.
What is causing all these excess heart deaths? 17% jump after the roll out of vaccines?
Here is another article stating the first year of Covid there was a sharp rise at 14% and then the second year was at 29%.

Heart attack deaths jumped sharply among young U.S. adults in 2nd year of pandemic

These excessively higher rates of heart attack-related death have persisted throughout the pandemic, including the possibility that COVID-19 could trigger or accelerate coronary artery disease.

www.pressherald.com

Yet:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/more-young-americans-are-dying-but-not-from-vaccines/2023/01/19/b6a52af4-97f3-11ed-a173-61e055ec24ef_story.html

Mainstream:

View: https://youtu.be/w5kKKUqHKjA


“Quacks”

View: https://twitter.com/draseemmalhotra/status/1613837487796850688?s=46&t=5hlw-6Kl3-HT0EkHm2CU7A


I’m not an expert, but I like the flow of information from both sides of this issue. Just like we don’t know where Covid came from (lab/market) we don’t know what’s causing all these excess deaths. Yet people on one side love to call everyone anti-vax, quacks, dumb asses and shout down their views.
We don’t even know each persons vaccination status who died. How many boosters did they receive, how many times were they infected by Covid. Were they healthy or did they have health issues.

That was the point of my post. It brings up more questions and not answers. Especially due to the timing. I know and understand young and healthy people were dying before Covid with heart issues. This is not debatable. It’s the understanding what’s really causing the spike.

I think its probably covid causing the spike.

 

[gandalfe]

I think its probably covid causing the spike.

Not to mention that people were hesitant about going to see the doctor. As time goes on with people not going to see the Dr, their heart problems get worse and worse.

My Dad had every booster available to him, and died of a bad heart. And, yes, he did delay going to see the Dr due to Covid, although in his case it really wouldn't have mattered, his problems had been worsening for years.

 

[Bucknutz]

I think its probably covid causing the spike.

Yeah, but what part of it. Is it actually Covid? Which version? Second year was worse than the first. So did omnicron cause more heart issues. Is it the lockdowns that prevented medical visits. Could it be that mRNA shots be a cause?

I don’t know. Until they do find the real reason(s), I will find this information interesting. Mostly for preparation and prevention if something like this happens again.

 

[The Thriller]

The article specifically says that "vaccination can reduce the risk of non‐respiratory complications of Covid, including ischaemic stroke." Also, "The estimated risk of myocarditis or pericarditis after SARS‐CoV‐2 infection is 18–21 times as high as for uninfected people."

So, basically, there is nothing in that article that blames vaccines. So what is your point?

Exactly. There isn’t any point other than herd mentality here. The right has decided that their identity is going to be linked to vaccine conspiracy. So anytime they can attempt to feed into the confusion of vaccines, they’ll do it. Outcomes be damned. It’s all about keeping up with their identity.

Notice, how rare it is for someone on the left to promote vaccine nonsense these days. It’s because it’s been so wifey adopted by the right. Evidence and outcomes be damned. Most of the crap we deal with today is about bored people seeking identity and meaning through anger, grievance, and disinformation. From book banning to Qanon to Jewish space lasers to vaccine conspiracy.

 

[One Brow]

It is the mainstream position.
Excess death by heart attacks. Heart issues and strokes. They all die by every reason but the vaccine.
This is not an open discussion. You even see it on this forum. Calling everyone names who bring up the possibility that vaccines could be a cause.
What is causing all these excess heart deaths? 17% jump after the roll out of vaccines?

The article itself says they are caused by covid19 itself. Do you have information that this is false?

“Quacks”

Yes, Dr. Malhotra is. Check out what else he proposes.

Aseem Malhotra - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I’m not an expert, but I like the flow of information from both sides of this issue.

Just like you're not a geologist, so you like the flow of information from both sides of the earth-shape theory( flat vs. spheroid)?

Yet people on one side love to call everyone anti-vax, quacks, dumb asses and shout down their views.

Legitimate medical views are based on evidence and science.

We don’t even know each persons vaccination status who died. How many boosters did they receive, how many times were they infected by Covid. Were they healthy or did they have health issues.

Who do you think does know these facts?

 

[Bucknutz]

The article itself says they are caused by covid19 itself. Do you have information that this is false?

No it doesn’t. It’s one of the reasons per a study. Using only 1 study. 1… Again why is it higher in year 2 than in year 1? When did I say it was false? When did I imply it was false? This is the second straight post that you are trying to frame my post incorrectly.

Yes, Dr. Malhotra is. Check out what else he proposes.

You use Wikipedia. Weak information. You can’t use this as a source for reports at school yet you want to use it here. Did you listen to his message? Tell me what is wrong with it, using data.

Just like you're not a geologist, so you like the flow of information from both sides of the earth-shape theory( flat vs. spheroid)?

Sure, why can’t people present information. It’s up to the person who is reading it to acknowledge what the truth is. I can go back through peoples posting history and point out they were wrong. Even though at that moment they thought they were right because of the information they consumed.
Again being consistent here, this is why I have been very adamant that I don’t believe people or government should be silencing information. Even though at the time majority of people think it is misinformation.

Legitimate medical views are based on evidence and science.

Agreed and I have presented evidence and science in the past to debate these same topics, from both sides.

Who do you think does know these facts?

I would think that if you do a study that you should have all these variables included. Just like counting Covid deaths… yet they were wrong counting, because they were informed differently and incorrectly by different sources. Yet most people went off of the CNN ticker or Google’s tracker.

Covid's True Death Toll Still Elusive, Three Years In

The true global death toll of Covid-19 remains difficult to nail down three years after the first case was detected, though experts agree there have been far more fatalities than officially reported.

www.barrons.com

CNN analyst slammed after writing COVID deaths are being overcounted: ‘TWO AND A HALF YEARS LATE’

China’s hospital COVID death data just a 10th of total toll, experts say

The nearly 60,000 COVID-related deaths recently reported may underestimate the true toll by hundreds of thousands of fatalities, experts said.

www.seattletimes.com

 

[One Brow]

No it doesn’t. It’s one of the reasons per a study. Using only 1 study. 1… Again why is it higher in year 2 than in year 1? When did I say it was false? When did I imply it was false? This is the second straight post that you are trying to frame my post incorrectly.

You brought this up in relation to the vaccine. I made that connection after your juxtaposition.

You use Wikipedia. Weak information.

Not as weak as Dr.Mulhotra.

You can’t use this as a source for reports at school yet you want to use it here. Did you listen to his message? Tell me what is wrong with it, using data.

The constituent parts of the vaccine don't last in the body six months. Omnicron is much more deadly than flu.

Sure, why can’t people present information. It’s up to the person who is reading it to acknowledge what the truth is. I can go back through peoples posting history and point out they were wrong. Even though at that moment they thought they were right because of the information they consumed.

If you want to fill your time with lies from grifters, more power to you.

Again being consistent here, this is why I have been very adamant that I don’t believe people or government should be silencing information. Even though at the time majority of people think it is misinformation.

Not everyone wants to be a purveyor of lies and grift. Why force them to?

 

[Bucknutz]

You brought this up in relation to the vaccine. I made that connection after your juxtaposition.


Not as weak as Dr.Mulhotra.


The constituent parts of the vaccine don't last in the body six months. Omnicron is much more deadly than flu.


If you want to fill your time with lies from grifters, more power to you.


Not everyone wants to be a purveyor of lies and grift. Why force them to?

Literally no value in your response. Bring something to the table. You provided 0 data or information. If you keep responding to debate every little detail without data, information or value, no point in responding to any post of yours.

 

[One Brow]

Literally no value in your response. Bring something to the table. You provided 0 data or information.

You first. All you've brought is innuendo and the opinions of a con man.

If you keep responding to debate every little detail without data, information or value, no point in responding to any post of yours.

Feel free to stop.

 

[Red]

The intellectual leader of the Republican Party.


View: https://twitter.com/KWBlack_198/status/1617021759466741760

 

[LogGrad98]

The article specifically says that "vaccination can reduce the risk of non‐respiratory complications of Covid, including ischaemic stroke." Also, "The estimated risk of myocarditis or pericarditis after SARS‐CoV‐2 infection is 18–21 times as high as for uninfected people."

So, basically, there is nothing in that article that blames vaccines. So what is your point?

Well it does mention vaccination.

The study also found that vaccination can reduce the risk of non‐respiratory complications of Covid, including ischaemic stroke.

So, that's interesting, because it's exactly the opposite of the claims of the vaccine INCREASING those risks. Hmm.

 

[The Thriller]

Well it does mention vaccination.



So, that's interesting, because it's exactly the opposite of the claims of the vaccine INCREASING those risks. Hmm.

Identity > facts

In an effort to provide more entertainment, outrage, and grievance in life, many Americans have turned to bogus conspiracy theories. It becomes even more attractive when their families, political party, and social network tribes now identify which such stupidity. Sadly, this is going to continue to become worse as people move on from the “light” drugs of Qanon and Covid nonsense to “harder” drugs. Each new conspiracy addict demands an even dumber conspiracy to keep the excitement alive. I’m not sure how or when this ends, especially as long as social media, smartphones are used for hrs a day, and people continue to become disconnected from face to face interaction with their community members in favor of online communities that create their own realities.

 

[One Brow]

There's a chance for those on the fence to interact witha couple of doctors who regularly talk about vaccines after watching a documentary:

Sign up for a virtual screening of "Virulent: The Vaccine War"

Science-Based Medicine is hosting a virtual screening of Virulent: The Vaccine War. Get your tickets to stream the film and join the Q&A.

www.respectfulinsolence.com

 

[gandalfe]

Well it does mention vaccination.



So, that's interesting, because it's exactly the opposite of the claims of the vaccine INCREASING those risks. Hmm.

I cam to realize that his point was specifically that this article didn't blame it on vaccines, therefore main stream media is brainwashing us.

 

[LogGrad98]

There's a chance for those on the fence to interact witha couple of doctors who regularly talk about vaccines after watching a documentary:

Sign up for a virtual screening of "Virulent: The Vaccine War"

Science-Based Medicine is hosting a virtual screening of Virulent: The Vaccine War. Get your tickets to stream the film and join the Q&A.

www.respectfulinsolence.com

Eh, they are just perpetuating the false narratives of "safe" vaccines. Pass.

 

[JazzGal]

Sadly, the whole Covid situation became political so fast that we will probably never have accurate numbers. It will probably take years to figure out what really happened.

Long Covid is going to be an interesting thing to be tracked, if anyone is doing so. Many people I know have various problems they didn't have before getting Covid (such as shortness of breath, headaches, brain fog, fatigue).

I hope someday we will better understand what happened with the pandemic. But I worry we will learn nothing and politicize the next one.

Sent from my SM-A426U using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[Douchebag K]

Sadly, the whole Covid situation became political so fast that we will probably never have accurate numbers. It will probably take years to figure out what really happened.

Long Covid is going to be an interesting thing to be tracked, if anyone is doing so. Many people I know have various problems they didn't have before getting Covid (such as shortness of breath, headaches, brain fog, fatigue).

I hope someday we will better understand what happened with the pandemic. But I worry we will learn nothing and politicize the next one.

Sent from my SM-A426U using JazzFanz mobile app

you know what's even more interesting ?? Is the excess deaths issue that persists and that no government seems too fussed about which seems rather scandalous. And i agree i don't believe any lessons will be learned, particularly where there are monetary interests and legal ramifications involved. I dare say it'll be everyone rushing to cover their own arses from blame.

 

[Douchebag K]

First, the first comment was uncalled for, and I take extreme exception to it. You are better than that, and you should have seen enough to know that thriller and I do not agree on very much. I didn't throw ad hominem at you. Why start with it here? Shows you are not super certain in your argument, tbh. The fact that that was your starting point tells me you don't put a lot of critical thinking to this stuff so you need to start with the insults. And since when was Thriller the final determining authority on any of this, and why bring him up when what I stated had nothing to do with anything he said or did?

Second, I was commenting on Musk's statement which was irresponsible as there is not a single example of what he is claiming, yet many will take it as an excuse to refuse vaccines in general and continue railing against the COVID vaccine specifically. Do you have an example of a vaccine causing more harm than the disease? If you have such blinders on you cannot see the unintended consequences and far-reaching possible effects of such a statement by someone like Musk, then may I introduce you to the hoards of people who support Trump? It also again makes me unsure you are being intellectually honest about this whole thing, yet again. Keeping your opinion carefully sheltered behind your anecdotal evidence.

So along those lines, I appreciate all your anecdotal evidence but I imagine we would be better served by using, you know, actual data and real scientific evidence, before using mummy as the reason for refusal to administer a potential life-saving vaccine.

And no, it has not been added to a super-secret caballistic coded untouchable childhood vaccine schedule or whatever stupid **** that is conveniently supposed to refer to. No one is forcing it on anyone. No one is planting secret microchips in it. Not sure what other pseudo-science ******** you subscribe to, but none of it is real. As I said, no one views it as a silver bullet (a part you chose to skim over, and in fact double down on with the Thriller comments, thanks for the intellectual honesty there), and no one is codifying it into permanent US scripture or whatever conspiracy you are afraid of there. Is it a point of discussion? Absolutely, as it should be, for something multiple times more deadly than the flu, which kills tens of thousands annually. At some point we would hope we get a vaccine we can administer like a flu vaccine, that would be best case scenario. But to brush it off entirely and "abandon all hope ye who get infected here" is a terrible approach to even consider. My and mine are fine, so **** you and yours, amirite? Great way to approach something from a societal perspective.

But, circling back to what this was about in the first place nut-jobs like Musk throwing the efficacy of vaccines into question with some fake made-up ****, with zero evidence to back it up, because he has some Trump-ian need to control people is just ludicrous and irresponsible. He should be lambasted for it.

well if you want to talk about fake made up **** how about the steady stream of steaming manure that has come from as One Brow would say a "liar and grifter" the Pfizer CEO who started off proclaiming 100 % efficacy in early trials and has since steadily wound those figures back as time has gone on .. should people like that be censored for misinformation ? And please why does the arguement have to jump to the Trump ?? wtf and to things like planting microchips ???? Why do you have to jump to such an obviously untrue extreme that you know damn well i have never mentioned. You're better than that. As far as the Thriller goes, yes i apologise. He is his own one man circle jerk, and that was a rash comment to include you in with him.

I would also take exception to the "my and mine are fine" comment which you also know damn well is insulting and untrue. "Using mummy as a reason to what ..... ??? you're not making sense there" Again, it is disappointing that you jump to that extreme when you try to paint those you disagree with as some kind of monster. You know damn well that i have repeatedly said that i think it is a good idea for those other than younger healthy people to have vaccination. I find it staggering that you cannot separate the risk and therefore treatment of Covid according to age and health status. Merely saying it is multiple times more deadly than the flu .. for who ?? You cannot possibly think it is for young children. And in light of ZERO medium to long term follow up studies of the safety of a new vaccine. Does it not bother you that the Covid vaccines are STILL shielded from liability by governments ??

Do i sometimes use a little too free dose of vitriol ?? Sure, in an attempt to get some who are so blindly wed to the idea of these vaccines being the be all and end all for EVERYBODY. I do also forget that in the US you haven't had mandates like we have here, where pretty much 95 % of the population has been jabbed, a great many who did not wish to at threat of their jobs, livelihoods, businesses and being pretty much locked out of society, i do forget a good deal of my anger about it is due to that. But a very large deal is due to the obfuscation, censorship that i have seen first hand directly here from the medical profession and government authorities. You can call that anecdotal if you like, sure, but there's a lot of the information pushing vaccines for everyone that is absolutely the same. Please do not mistake me for some conspiracy nutter, i have many funny conversations with those types on FB when they try to claim every death is related to vaccination. I read many many articles and there is so much conflicting junk science around that runs both ways, and serious issues seem to just get ignored. Excess deaths not being talked about is a disgrace, most likely due to the delays in seeking medical care. Surely there has to be a reckoning about this .. the cardiac issue is concering, it needs to be examined properly.

Again it was wrong the comment regarding you and Thriller, i sincerely apologize.

 

[Douchebag K]

Im not higher risk nor is my wife but we were both given the flu shot this year (and every year).

It is literally given to everyone of any age. My daughter is 6. Got it last year. My mom is nearly 80. She got it too. My wife and I are middle aged (40's) and we both got it.
What age or ages do you think the flu shot is restricted from being given too?

here it's very much the oldies, those with asthma, bad lungs, those who work in health care. Younger healthy people aren't given it routinely

 

[Douchebag K]

So people who don't take the vaccine appear more likely to engage in risk-taking behavior, which tends to cause more traffic accidents. And more risk-averse people are likely to take the vaccine and likely to not engage in risky behaviors so they have fewer accidents. In other news, water is found to generally be wet.

dude .. see One Brow's comment under yours. That paper was laughable in it's conclusions and factors it ignored and yet it was presented as a serious paper in a medical journal. This is the sort of junk science that passes for "the science" these days