John Stockton Claims Medicine is Bad

[SteakNEggs]

And yet MAGA/anti science vaxxers never go after PurduePharma for this type of stuff. There’s no movement to regulate this industry. There’s no talk of getting capitalism out of our medicine. No talk of moving towards a single payer system, like most of the industrialized world already has. It’s always focused on:

1. Anti vax nonsense, usually promoted by MAGA/Russian influencers.
2. Throwing a pity party for poor whites in the rust belt.

Never is it directed at the corporations and the health care system that have led to opioid addiction. Never is there any talk of the immoral (white) communities full of broken families that don’t appreciate education In the rust belt and their self-destructive tendencies. Just compare how communities of color that have been ravaged by crack are described vs white rural companies in the rust belt have been ravaged by opioid addition. The differences couldn’t be more stark. Yet, both suffer because the focus is never about improving the health care system (and much of the focus has been on exploring social, economic, and political inequalities).

Let’s focus on the health care system and much of this scary “big medicine” debate goes away.

@Red what is this? "We Debated" no you did not. This is probably the dumbest post in history lol. Typical hate and racism. Usually it's typical hate, racism, and hate towards religion though so it's an improvement.

Not taking the vaccine is one thing.

Being a propagandist's junior assistant by passing on all the BS like you know what you're talking about (when YOU, you specifically, don't) is deadly. Yeah. I think you're a bad person who deserves the same punishment a convicted murderer would receive. That's what I think of you. I think that you're no better than a murderer. Let me rephrase, I think that you ARE a murderer.

If there was an announcement on jazzfanz that you died a horrible painful death... I would not be sad.

That is what I think of you.

@Red This is not debate... Right. Then when I get stern back you whine and cry. If a person says this here, imagine what **** they said when the virus was going on and more emotional. It was this every day with you guys. Not this disgusting but in the same boat. You really think this sort of diatribe just started yesterday? This is just the nearest sample size. This sort of mean and downright hateful rhetoric was daily back in the day. I know this is no you personally but were just as guilty of this sort of diatribe yet deny it.

Now what did I say here that was wrong? This is just the most recent inhumane POS human stuff I can find as it's recent. Be honest... You wont answer a thing because I constantly prove you wrong and then you flee just like fish but how is this not flat out disgusting?

 

[SteakNEggs]

I mean this entire thread is a hate filled cesspool of you guys being overdramatic a-holes. John Stockton never said he was against Medicine. What he said is that he believes in alternate methods over masking the injuries with prescription drugs yet look at the hate towards the guy because you guys took a flat out propagated tweet and ran with it without actually listening to the actual interview... Which to me as a Jazz fan was a fantastic listen if you weren't so filled with hate.. But no... John disagreed with you guys so you hate him. This is not debate red... This is sheep being sheep.

@Red

 

[Red]

I mean this entire thread is a hate filled cesspool of you guys being overdramatic a-holes. John Stockton never said he was against Medicine. What he said is that he believes in alternate methods over masking the injuries with prescription drugs yet look at the hate towards the guy because you guys took a flat out propagated tweet and ran with it without actually listening to the actual interview... Which to me as a Jazz fan was a fantastic listen if you weren't so filled with hate.. But no... John disagreed with you guys so you hate him. This is not debate red... This is sheep being sheep.

@Red

I never got into any discussions involving John Stockton himself. Never talked about the man at all. Not once. You spend a great deal of time misrepresenting other posters.

 

[Red]

@Red This is not debate.

Now what did I say here that was wrong?

When you talk to others on this board, in the piss poor way you do, you will get reactions now and then. You’ve triggered, in myself, angry responses to you, and more than once. If you look at all your venomous comments to others, what do you expect? Do you provide any reasons at all for people to act kindly toward you, here on this board? I just think it must get tiring at times trying to maintain the standard of extreme venom toward others that you seem to insist upon, all the while whining about how bullied you are. Hey, if that’s what you enjoy doing I guess, just don’t know what the point of it all is.

 

[SteakNEggs]

When you talk to others on this board, in the piss poor way you do, you will get reactions now and then. You’ve triggered, in myself, angry responses to you, and more than once. If you look at all your venomous comments to others, what do you expect? Do you provide any reasons at all for people to act kindly toward you, here on this board? I just think it must get tiring at times trying to maintain the standard of extreme venom toward others that you seem to insist upon, all the while whining about how bullied you are. Hey, if that’s what you enjoy doing I guess, just don’t know what the point of it all is.

Right back at you. I'm not the one fascistly hating people and wishing death and jail on others. I feel I given equal response to the ones who have continually called people cultist, Nazis, tribalist, racist, transphobe, mentally ill. I sure have never threatened to kill Biden. That just as extremest as the Jan 6th f* tards. That's a whole nother level of hatred towards others. I digress on that.

I mean you guys start threads calling others transphobes for someone like me simply saying I disagree with pushing sexuality on children. I couldn't care less about a persons gender but when you start mutilating kids that are still developing, that's insane to me. Thats not a phobia, staring threads calling people f* up names is using bullying tactics to shut people up. Then when they say they are "coming for children", that's just wrong no matter the intent. Right, left, black, white, when you start saying your coming for others children, you are gross. We can't even support factual biology without getting called transphobes. I can't sit here and say men are biologically different than women and shouldn't play women's sports without being a transphobe.

I admit that I push buttons but there is reason why there a so few Republicans around here. Its the way this board is intolerant towards anyone who thinks differently. Now it may be childish but I like to respond in kind and watch you guys play the victim. The only time I've ever been a little pissed was when some loser blamed me for his failures as a father and went as far as wishing death and jail on me. How am supposed to respond? When you guys have called my family, friends and even your own family cultist hundreds, literally hundreds of times for being a Republican and supporting Trump. That's the definition of a bigot. Again... I am guilty myself but I didn't start this name calling.

I didn't start the hoax about Russia. You guys sit here and mockingly say "but arrest were made" and I ask what arrest and he runs away like he always does. It's completely documented that there was literally evidence fabricated out of thin air and both Hillary and Obama pushed it. Now you guys suddenly need all of this evidence when it's so blatant that Biden is every bit as corrupt as you pushed Trump to be. You impeaching Trump over the dumbest **** was every bit as decisive as anything most Trump supporters are guilty of. Is there a faction of radical ******* Trump supporters? Yeah but that goes both ways .

Of course I'm not going to be nice to people who spend 6 years pushing a blatant hoax fabricated by the Hillary campaign. You guys are every bit as divisive with that stunt.

During Covid you sat here and demeaned anyone who questioned anything. You sit and say it didn't happen but it did. I got flat out hate for questioning the impossibility of a virus popping up 700 feet from a lab. I got hate because I was aware that cloth mask were basically useless. I was hated on brutally for suggesting natural immunity which was extremely effective. People like Joe Rogan were fascistly tried to be cancelled because he made his own decisions and took a noble peace winning drug not a 8 month old vaccine. You can't sit here and say this wasn't a discussion here. You were not in my shoes.

So am I a little bitter towards these people? Yeah. Especially when they were wrong in pretty much every aspect above. I didn't force mask. I didn't force vaccines. I didn't hate John Stockton. I didn't call others cultist. I didn't push the Steele Dossier which was literally Russian. I didn't spread vile hatred towards unvaccinated.

You guys did. Now you all deny it.

 

[LogGrad98]

When you talk to others on this board, in the piss poor way you do, you will get reactions now and then. You’ve triggered, in myself, angry responses to you, and more than once. If you look at all your venomous comments to others, what do you expect? Do you provide any reasons at all for people to act kindly toward you, here on this board? I just think it must get tiring at times trying to maintain the standard of extreme venom toward others that you seem to insist upon, all the while whining about how bullied you are. Hey, if that’s what you enjoy doing I guess, just don’t know what the point of it all is.

It's not hard at all. He's a troll. He feeds on the venom. Loves it when he gets hostile responses. Gets his jollies off of making people mad so he can laugh about how clever he is with his other keyboard warrior buddies. Best to just let it go.

 

[SteakNEggs]

It's not hard at all. He's a troll. He feeds on the venom. Loves it when he gets hostile responses. Gets his jollies off of making people mad so he can laugh about how clever he is with his other keyboard warrior buddies. Best to just let it go.

Hostile response while whining about hostile responses lololol...Bullies crying to mom about being bullied lol. Me? I can fight and make a point, you can't.

 

[Douchebag K]

Medical mistakes account for as many as 250,000 deaths annually in the United States , making it the third leading cause of death.

So in some way yes the inappropriate use of medicines can be pretty freaking bad. Maybe that's what he so clumsily was trying to point out. Or not

 

[Gameface]

Medical mistakes account for as many as 250,000 deaths annually in the United States , making it the third leading cause of death.

So in some way yes the inappropriate use of medicines can be pretty freaking bad. Maybe that's what he so clumsily was trying to point out. Or not

He said he had proof of 10s of thousands of deaths from the vaccine when he did not have such proof. He lied and/or is lost in delusion.

 

[fishonjazz]

Medical mistakes account for as many as 250,000 deaths annually in the United States , making it the third leading cause of death.

So in some way yes the inappropriate use of medicines can be pretty freaking bad. Maybe that's what he so clumsily was trying to point out. Or not

Would be interesting to factor in how many of those 250,000 deaths would have happened with no intervention at all from the medicine. In other words im guessing that sometimes someone is having a heart attack that would kill them. They get taken to the hospital and a mistake is made and they die. But they would have died anyway if they weren't taken to the hospital in the first place.
"medical mistake" is pretty vague and extremely lacking in data. So many scenarios fall under that category.

I would also guess that the medical community saves way more lives than 250,000 each year. Its by far advantageous to have modern medicine.

Btw I saw your "maybe" and "or not" at the end of the post.

 

[Gameface]

Would be interesting to factor in how many of those 250,000 deaths would have happened with no intervention at all from the medicine. In other words im guessing that sometimes someone is having a heart attack that would kill them. They get taken to the hospital and a mistake is made and they die. But they would have died anyway if they weren't taken to the hospital in the first place.
"medical mistake" is pretty vague and extremely lacking in data. So many scenarios fall under that category.

I would also guess that the medical community saves way more lives than 250,000 each year. Its by far advantageous to have modern medicine.

Btw I saw your "maybe" and "or not" at the end of the post.

Yeah a lot of people in hospitals are there because of severe health issues. I bet the thing that kills them would be unlikely to kill a healthy person in their 20s.

I've been going to hospitals for work for about a year and a half now and I can say that there are a lot of old people at hospitals, 70s, 80s. A lot.

 

[Douchebag K]

He said he had proof of 10s of thousands of deaths from the vaccine when he did not have such proof. He lied and/or is lost in delusion.

dude that's why i put the "or not" at the end I don't know what tf he was getting at

 

[Gameface]

dude that's why i put the "or not" at the end I don't know what tf he was getting at

Well he wasn't pointing out medical mistakes, he was saying specifically that the vaccine caused 10s of thousands of deaths, amongst athletes if I remember correctly. He claimed to have proof, which he doesn't because no such thing happened.

 

[Douchebag K]

Would be interesting to factor in how many of those 250,000 deaths would have happened with no intervention at all from the medicine. In other words im guessing that sometimes someone is having a heart attack that would kill them. They get taken to the hospital and a mistake is made and they die. But they would have died anyway if they weren't taken to the hospital in the first place.
"medical mistake" is pretty vague and extremely lacking in data. So many scenarios fall under that category.

I would also guess that the medical community saves way more lives than 250,000 each year. Its by far advantageous to have modern medicine.

Btw I saw your "maybe" and "or not" at the end of the post.

i think you'd be surprised how many are really just errors of judgement / process. Of course there are a lot who'd be on their way out at the end of their life but it's also routinely estimated that only 10-20% of medical mistakes are actually reported. I'll try to find some more details on it.

I also think it's really important that it's not just accepted as collateral damage and that it's ok because medicine saves way more lives that it takes but that it's closely examined to see how these mistakes can be minimised. Because the definition of a medical mistake includes "preventable" Unfortunately financial interests hamper that aspect.

 

[Douchebag K]

Well he wasn't pointing out medical mistakes, he was saying specifically that the vaccine caused 10s of thousands of deaths, amongst athletes if I remember correctly. He claimed to have proof, which he doesn't because no such thing happened.

he doesn't have proof for sure, he defn seems to be on the lunatic fringe of that issue. I was more referring to the general statement that "medicine is bad" or "medicine is good" as a philosophical concept. It's also true that cardiac issues have exploded post Covid and Covid vaccination and nobody knows why for sure because there aren't any longer term placebo controlled studies of the Covid vaccines and there's the effects of Covid itself. It's a messy scenario all round.

as you know i'm more on the other side of the vaccine viewpoint than you but i get pretty tired of people who carry on about it every time anyone dies of a heart attack as if it never happened before

 

[One Brow]

It's also true that cardiac issues have exploded post Covid and Covid vaccination and nobody knows why for sure because there aren't any longer term placebo controlled studies of the Covid vaccines and there's the effects of Covid itself. It's a messy scenario all round.

It might also be related to other behavior around the pandemic. There's a lot more working from home now, and not everyone is exercising to make up the difference.

as you know i'm more on the other side of the vaccine viewpoint than you but i get pretty tired of people who carry on about it every time anyone dies of a heart attack as if it never happened before

Most issues are more complicated than two sides.

 

[carey scurry fan]

View: https://www.bitchute.com/video/k5yVtM2O4xsn/

 

[LogGrad98]

This is as good as anywhere for this.

US mortality rates far higher than peer nations, leading to millions of "Missing Americans"

A new study found that more than one million US deaths a year-;including many young and working-age adults-;could be avoided if the US had mortality rates similar to its peer nations.

www.news-medical.net

Thoughts?

 

[SteakNEggs]

This is as good as anywhere for this.

US mortality rates far higher than peer nations, leading to millions of "Missing Americans"

A new study found that more than one million US deaths a year-;including many young and working-age adults-;could be avoided if the US had mortality rates similar to its peer nations.

www.news-medical.net

Thoughts?

As Stockton said and he was completely hated on, possibly if we tried to fix the root cause of the issue instead of mask it with prescription drugs, this would die down. As quoted in the article..."They connect the large excess mortality burden to the failure of US policy to adequately address major public health issues, including the opioid epidemic,"

As Stockton said in a smaller scale... We are not addressing the problem.. we are masking the problem with drugs. If any of you actually listened instead spread vitriol this is the same basis of what he was saying.

Now trying to blame COVID which I think OP is trying to do is just silly. This was an issue long before COVID.

 

[LogGrad98]

As Stockton said and he was completely hated on, possibly if we tried to fix the root cause of the issue instead of mask it with prescription drugs, this would die down. As quoted in the article..."They connect the large excess mortality burden to the failure of US policy to adequately address major public health issues, including the opioid epidemic,"

As Stockton said in a smaller scale... We are not addressing the problem.. we are masking the problem with drugs. If any of you actually listened instead spread vitriol this is the same basis of what he was saying.

Now trying to blame COVID which I think OP is trying to do is just silly. This was an issue long before COVID.

The issue isn't masking it with prescription drugs. It is much larger than that. The problem is we are beholden to medical services as businesses first and foremost. This means highest price and lowest cost is the mantra. Hence $500 single doses of Tylenol pills. And this is a business model that is truly an oligopoly, since we have very little choice in healthcare that isn't prohibitively expensive for the vast majority of Americans. Couple this with out of control litigation and the costs are astronomical compared to almost any other developed nation. The last time this was analyzed by the WHO, we ranked just below Iran, iirc, in overall health care system. We subsidize the rest of the world by allowing pharma companies to maintain their patents far longer than other nations allow and we do nothing to control prescription drug expenses. In Germany, for example, price for prescriptions drugs had to follow a set of criteria to avoid the insane markups we see here of 1000% or more on some drugs. Since we have no such controls, we pay far and away the most out of pocket of any developed nation, which subsidizes the expenses in other countries, and bolsters record profit margins for pharma companies. And pharmaceuiticals is only one area in which we lag behind the rest of the world. We lag behind in nearly every other measure of a functioning healthcare system, including basic access to medical care, wait times, and even quality of outcome, and far and away the most lawsuits related to health care. We have done nothing to improve our health care system beyond bolstering profits for the businesses involved, at the extreme expense of the patients, who are just their customers.

Yes we need to do a lot more than just prescribe medication. I saw this personally with my wife who had always had hip pain our entire marriage, and in the states, even after she had lost 75 pounds, she was told it was a weight issue and they looked no further. Once we moved to Germany they had her in for an MRI within 4 days, and then an appointment with a specialist within 4 days after that, then physical therapy within 5 days after that, as they diagnosed hip dysplasia which should have been diagnoses here decades before. And the physical therapy worked, her pain was largely ameliorated. Then we move back here and her doctors scoff at what the germans told us. Surely they can't know modern medicine, right? PT here was largely ineffective as it focused on heat and minor stretching and wasn't geared toward dealing with HD the way we experienced in Germany. She went through gastric bypass and has since lost over 100 pounds. And a couple of months ago we had an MRI for her hip, after a 6 month wait. And then it took 6 weeks to get back into the specialist. For them to finally admit, hey there is hip dysplasia here. No ****? Then the PT she got was mostly just hot compresses and very little actual manipulation because it was as if the doctors and PT didn't know what to do for that condition. They treated it merely as bursitis, which is a symptom but not the underlying cause, oh and with prescriptions for muscle relaxants, of course. Here is the kicker: total cost for the treatment in Germany, incl. PT = about €200, maybe €750 if you factor in the overall cost of healthcare coverage, as in premiums out of my paycheck. Total cost here? Well in excess of $4000 (our basic deductible plus coinsurance after it was met), and that does NOT include premiums.

So a lot higher cost for worse care and far longer wait times. That is the problem we are facing in this country. Add far less availability on top of that and the over-use of prescription drugs itself is merely a symptom of a broken system. It is way bigger than that.