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John Stockton Claims Medicine is Bad

I never got into any discussions involving John Stockton himself. Never talked about the man at all. Not once. You spend a great deal of time misrepresenting other posters.
 

When you talk to others on this board, in the piss poor way you do, you will get reactions now and then. You’ve triggered, in myself, angry responses to you, and more than once. If you look at all your venomous comments to others, what do you expect? Do you provide any reasons at all for people to act kindly toward you, here on this board? I just think it must get tiring at times trying to maintain the standard of extreme venom toward others that you seem to insist upon, all the while whining about how bullied you are. Hey, if that’s what you enjoy doing I guess, just don’t know what the point of it all is.
 
Red said:
When you talk to others on this board, in the piss poor way you do, you will get reactions now and then. You’ve triggered, in myself, angry responses to you, and more than once. If you look at all your venomous comments to others, what do you expect? Do you provide any reasons at all for people to act kindly toward you, here on this board? I just think it must get tiring at times trying to maintain the standard of extreme venom toward others that you seem to insist upon, all the while whining about how bullied you are. Hey, if that’s what you enjoy doing I guess, just don’t know what the point of it all is.
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It's not hard at all. He's a troll. He feeds on the venom. Loves it when he gets hostile responses. Gets his jollies off of making people mad so he can laugh about how clever he is with his other keyboard warrior buddies. Best to just let it go.
 
Medical mistakes account for as many as 250,000 deaths annually in the United States , making it the third leading cause of death.

So in some way yes the inappropriate use of medicines can be pretty freaking bad. Maybe that's what he so clumsily was trying to point out. Or not
 
Douchebag K said:
Medical mistakes account for as many as 250,000 deaths annually in the United States , making it the third leading cause of death.

So in some way yes the inappropriate use of medicines can be pretty freaking bad. Maybe that's what he so clumsily was trying to point out. Or not
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He said he had proof of 10s of thousands of deaths from the vaccine when he did not have such proof. He lied and/or is lost in delusion.
 
Douchebag K said:
Medical mistakes account for as many as 250,000 deaths annually in the United States , making it the third leading cause of death.

So in some way yes the inappropriate use of medicines can be pretty freaking bad. Maybe that's what he so clumsily was trying to point out. Or not
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Would be interesting to factor in how many of those 250,000 deaths would have happened with no intervention at all from the medicine. In other words im guessing that sometimes someone is having a heart attack that would kill them. They get taken to the hospital and a mistake is made and they die. But they would have died anyway if they weren't taken to the hospital in the first place.
"medical mistake" is pretty vague and extremely lacking in data. So many scenarios fall under that category.

I would also guess that the medical community saves way more lives than 250,000 each year. Its by far advantageous to have modern medicine.

Btw I saw your "maybe" and "or not" at the end of the post.
 
fishonjazz said:
Would be interesting to factor in how many of those 250,000 deaths would have happened with no intervention at all from the medicine. In other words im guessing that sometimes someone is having a heart attack that would kill them. They get taken to the hospital and a mistake is made and they die. But they would have died anyway if they weren't taken to the hospital in the first place.
"medical mistake" is pretty vague and extremely lacking in data. So many scenarios fall under that category.

I would also guess that the medical community saves way more lives than 250,000 each year. Its by far advantageous to have modern medicine.

Btw I saw your "maybe" and "or not" at the end of the post.
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Yeah a lot of people in hospitals are there because of severe health issues. I bet the thing that kills them would be unlikely to kill a healthy person in their 20s.

I've been going to hospitals for work for about a year and a half now and I can say that there are a lot of old people at hospitals, 70s, 80s. A lot.
 
Douchebag K said:
dude that's why i put the "or not" at the end I don't know what tf he was getting at
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Well he wasn't pointing out medical mistakes, he was saying specifically that the vaccine caused 10s of thousands of deaths, amongst athletes if I remember correctly. He claimed to have proof, which he doesn't because no such thing happened.
 
fishonjazz said:
Would be interesting to factor in how many of those 250,000 deaths would have happened with no intervention at all from the medicine. In other words im guessing that sometimes someone is having a heart attack that would kill them. They get taken to the hospital and a mistake is made and they die. But they would have died anyway if they weren't taken to the hospital in the first place.
"medical mistake" is pretty vague and extremely lacking in data. So many scenarios fall under that category.

I would also guess that the medical community saves way more lives than 250,000 each year. Its by far advantageous to have modern medicine.

Btw I saw your "maybe" and "or not" at the end of the post.
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i think you'd be surprised how many are really just errors of judgement / process. Of course there are a lot who'd be on their way out at the end of their life but it's also routinely estimated that only 10-20% of medical mistakes are actually reported. I'll try to find some more details on it.

I also think it's really important that it's not just accepted as collateral damage and that it's ok because medicine saves way more lives that it takes but that it's closely examined to see how these mistakes can be minimised. Because the definition of a medical mistake includes "preventable" Unfortunately financial interests hamper that aspect.
 
Gameface said:
Well he wasn't pointing out medical mistakes, he was saying specifically that the vaccine caused 10s of thousands of deaths, amongst athletes if I remember correctly. He claimed to have proof, which he doesn't because no such thing happened.
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he doesn't have proof for sure, he defn seems to be on the lunatic fringe of that issue. I was more referring to the general statement that "medicine is bad" or "medicine is good" as a philosophical concept. It's also true that cardiac issues have exploded post Covid and Covid vaccination and nobody knows why for sure because there aren't any longer term placebo controlled studies of the Covid vaccines and there's the effects of Covid itself. It's a messy scenario all round.

as you know i'm more on the other side of the vaccine viewpoint than you but i get pretty tired of people who carry on about it every time anyone dies of a heart attack as if it never happened before
 
Douchebag K said:
It's also true that cardiac issues have exploded post Covid and Covid vaccination and nobody knows why for sure because there aren't any longer term placebo controlled studies of the Covid vaccines and there's the effects of Covid itself. It's a messy scenario all round.
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It might also be related to other behavior around the pandemic. There's a lot more working from home now, and not everyone is exercising to make up the difference.

Douchebag K said:
as you know i'm more on the other side of the vaccine viewpoint than you but i get pretty tired of people who carry on about it every time anyone dies of a heart attack as if it never happened before
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Most issues are more complicated than two sides.
 
The issue isn't masking it with prescription drugs. It is much larger than that. The problem is we are beholden to medical services as businesses first and foremost. This means highest price and lowest cost is the mantra. Hence $500 single doses of Tylenol pills. And this is a business model that is truly an oligopoly, since we have very little choice in healthcare that isn't prohibitively expensive for the vast majority of Americans. Couple this with out of control litigation and the costs are astronomical compared to almost any other developed nation. The last time this was analyzed by the WHO, we ranked just below Iran, iirc, in overall health care system. We subsidize the rest of the world by allowing pharma companies to maintain their patents far longer than other nations allow and we do nothing to control prescription drug expenses. In Germany, for example, price for prescriptions drugs had to follow a set of criteria to avoid the insane markups we see here of 1000% or more on some drugs. Since we have no such controls, we pay far and away the most out of pocket of any developed nation, which subsidizes the expenses in other countries, and bolsters record profit margins for pharma companies. And pharmaceuiticals is only one area in which we lag behind the rest of the world. We lag behind in nearly every other measure of a functioning healthcare system, including basic access to medical care, wait times, and even quality of outcome, and far and away the most lawsuits related to health care. We have done nothing to improve our health care system beyond bolstering profits for the businesses involved, at the extreme expense of the patients, who are just their customers.

Yes we need to do a lot more than just prescribe medication. I saw this personally with my wife who had always had hip pain our entire marriage, and in the states, even after she had lost 75 pounds, she was told it was a weight issue and they looked no further. Once we moved to Germany they had her in for an MRI within 4 days, and then an appointment with a specialist within 4 days after that, then physical therapy within 5 days after that, as they diagnosed hip dysplasia which should have been diagnoses here decades before. And the physical therapy worked, her pain was largely ameliorated. Then we move back here and her doctors scoff at what the germans told us. Surely they can't know modern medicine, right? PT here was largely ineffective as it focused on heat and minor stretching and wasn't geared toward dealing with HD the way we experienced in Germany. She went through gastric bypass and has since lost over 100 pounds. And a couple of months ago we had an MRI for her hip, after a 6 month wait. And then it took 6 weeks to get back into the specialist. For them to finally admit, hey there is hip dysplasia here. No ****? Then the PT she got was mostly just hot compresses and very little actual manipulation because it was as if the doctors and PT didn't know what to do for that condition. They treated it merely as bursitis, which is a symptom but not the underlying cause, oh and with prescriptions for muscle relaxants, of course. Here is the kicker: total cost for the treatment in Germany, incl. PT = about €200, maybe €750 if you factor in the overall cost of healthcare coverage, as in premiums out of my paycheck. Total cost here? Well in excess of $4000 (our basic deductible plus coinsurance after it was met), and that does NOT include premiums.

So a lot higher cost for worse care and far longer wait times. That is the problem we are facing in this country. Add far less availability on top of that and the over-use of prescription drugs itself is merely a symptom of a broken system. It is way bigger than that.
 
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