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The Caravan

First, I appreciate both your expertise and your tone in this discussion. Thank you.

Still, you're naive if you think something like international law is going to stop Trump from mistreating immigrants.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump..._to_accept_asylum_seekers_at_border_crossings
To be clear, Trump will stretch the law as far as he can, and if he can abuse asylum seekers in a way that does not defy international law, he probably will, and will do so to the limit available to him based on guidance with his advisors.

Obama seriously considered the separations too according to an old NY Times article I recall reading quoting on of his advisors. Thankfully the idea did not gain traction. Obama was then criticized for detaining families in overcrowded facilities. Damned if you do or don't.

My comment was that Trump cannot prosecute asylum seekers as international law clearly prohibits it. He can detain them, separate them, and deport them if they don't meet the qualification test for asylum seekers. And I am sure he will also push those tests to the limits.
 


But clearly you’ve been following this situation relatively closely... lol


I saw Homeland Security put out a notice on this well before the President did. But, yeah, keep on hating. Sorry if I don't live my life on Twitter hoping to find something to cry about like you do.
 
I saw Homeland Security put out a notice on this well before the President did. But, yeah, keep on hating. Sorry if I don't live my life on Twitter hoping to find something to cry about like you do.

My advice is place him on ignore. No good can come from interaction with him.
 
I saw Homeland Security put out a notice on this well before the President did. But, yeah, keep on hating. Sorry if I don't live my life on Twitter hoping to find something to cry about like you do.

You asked who was peddling the unfounded claim that “unknown middle easterners” were traveling in this caravan and I responded. You don’t have to live on twitter to have known about this. Especially if you’re following this story “relatively closely.” Literally every major news outlet had reported that Trump had made this outrageous claim. You asked a question and I responded.

I’m sorry that you didn’t like my response
 
My advice is place him on ignore. No good can come from interaction with him.

Especially when one so desperately want their poorly informed political opinions to be vindicated. I don’t tolerate bs and operate in the world of facts. So when people try to defend the xenophobia spewed by the president about this caravan, don’t expect to be treated well by me.
 
Scary stuff really. I'm not a historian, but this feels like what I imagine 1930s Germany was like.

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People on the left are fond of this claim. Right wing whackos were making similar claims when Obama was elected. I think all of them are way, way off. I do not think either of these administrations are like Hitler at all. I think it's just a very convenient and easy to use scare tactic.
 
People on the left are fond of this claim. Right wing whackos were making similar claims when Obama was elected. I think all of them are way, way off. I do not think either of these administrations are like Hitler at all. I think it's just a very convenient and easy to use scare tactic.
I think when people bring this up they are referencing the political turmoil and degradation of civil society and the rise of nationalistic demagoguery. It feels appropriate in light of the fact that someone tried (and failed gladly) to blow up a dozen prominent politicians including a substantial portion of the previous administration this week, while the current president goes about blaming the victims, and encouraging false flag conspiracy theories.
 
People on the left are fond of this claim. Right wing whackos were making similar claims when Obama was elected. I think all of them are way, way off. I do not think either of these administrations are like Hitler at all. I think it's just a very convenient and easy to use scare tactic.
I'm not an alarmist and I don't think we're there yet. There are no brown shirts yet. But there is a growing cult of personality surrounding our president that is concerning.

I see and hear people raving about how wonderful he is, and they totally overlook any negative information. They, the Trumpers, take any criticism of Trump as a personal insult. The irrational approval of the president, and willingness to support anything he says or does is a threat to our democracy.

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I'm not an alarmist and I don't think we're there yet. There are no brown shirts yet. But there is a growing cult of personality surrounding our president that is concerning.

I see and hear people raving about how wonderful he is, and they totally overlook any negative information. They, the Trumpers, take any criticism of Trump as a personal insult. The irrational approval of the president, and willingness to support anything he says or does is a threat to our democracy.

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I'm not sure if we'll ever see brown shirts. But it won't matter. You don't have to have brown shirts to live in an authoritarian regime anymore. With social media and disinformation campaigns combined with crony capitalism, and the way we elect the senate and electoral college, Trump and the Republicans could turn off 60-70 percent of the country yet still control most of the government.

#1 They bribe the rich and corporations with handouts.
#2 States outside of the coasts are becoming increasingly homogeneous, older, and red. Smaller and redder states count just as much for the senate as states like California. So Wyoming essentially negates California's representation in the Senate. This permits Republicans to perpetually control one half of Congress and appoint judges. Support for labor, women, and minorities already is being cut. Ask a LGBT person if they feel Trump's authoritarianism over them. Or the latino community. Ask women once Kavanaugh guts Roe v Wade if they still feel free.
#3 The disinformation campaign prevents a tipping point of the populace from ever turning on "their man." As a result, governing becomes harder and holding people like Trump accountable becomes impossible. Putin, Erodogan, and Trump have mastered this. As long as 30 percent of the populace still think that Hillary is the one who colluded, MAGA is awesome, and Democrats actually framed Cesar with False Flag nonsense, it's impossible to hold Trump and his cronies accountable.
 


I'm not sure if we'll ever see brown shirts. But it won't matter. You don't have to have brown shirts to live in an authoritarian regime anymore. With social media and disinformation campaigns combined with crony capitalism, and the way we elect the senate and electoral college, Trump and the Republicans could turn off 60-70 percent of the country yet still control most of the government.

#1 They bribe the rich and corporations with handouts.
#2 States outside of the coasts are becoming increasingly homogeneous, older, and red. Smaller and redder states count just as much for the senate as states like California. So Wyoming essentially negates California's representation in the Senate. This permits Republicans to perpetually control one half of Congress and appoint judges. Support for labor, women, and minorities already is being cut. Ask a LGBT person if they feel Trump's authoritarianism over them. Or the latino community. Ask women once Kavanaugh guts Roe v Wade if they still feel free.
#3 The disinformation campaign prevents a tipping point of the populace from ever turning on "their man." As a result, governing becomes harder and holding people like Trump accountable becomes impossible. Putin, Erodogan, and Trump have mastered this. As long as 30 percent of the populace still think that Hillary is the one who colluded, MAGA is awesome, and Democrats actually framed Cesar with False Flag nonsense, it's impossible to hold Trump and his cronies accountable.
Gaaahhh
This stuff really gets to me.

Points 1 and 3 ... I hear you

Point 2
That's working like it was designed. The Senate was always meant to be a check on the more populus states. The check, if you will, on the more responsive house of representatives. Not sure that is too big of a concern. If we could fix 1 and 3, 2 would not be that big of a deal. Imo

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Gaaahhh
This stuff really gets to me.

Points 1 and 3 ... I hear you

Point 2
That's working like it was designed. The Senate was always meant to be a check on the more populus states. The check, if you will, on the more responsive house of representatives. Not sure that is too big of a concern. If we could fix 1 and 3, 2 would not be that big of a deal. Imo

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I agree that the senate and electoral college are acting as they’re designed. The issue I have is the cult of personality that trump has created and the alt reality Fox News is providing. I don’t see how the middle rural populated states believing in an alt reality is a good thing. How is the government supposed to properly function if a minority holds the majority for ransom not over ideological disputes but over disputes about facts and alt facts?

As the ability to legislate is stifled people will lose faith in democracy and seek strongmen to govern. That’s not a good thing.
 
Gaaahhh
This stuff really gets to me.

Points 1 and 3 ... I hear you

Point 2
That's working like it was designed. The Senate was always meant to be a check on the more populus states. The check, if you will, on the more responsive house of representatives. Not sure that is too big of a concern. If we could fix 1 and 3, 2 would not be that big of a deal. Imo

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Bear in mind that the question of slavery had a lot to do with how the constitution was written. That it is working the way a bunch of slave owners designed it to is not reason enough to decide its worth continuing imo. I'm not sure what the solution (Giving DC and PR statehood?) but Democrats are not getting the same national representation as Republicans even when they earn more votes. It's a problem.
 
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I agree that the senate and electoral college are acting as they’re designed. The issue I have is the cult of personality that trump has created and the alt reality Fox News is providing. I don’t see how the middle rural populated states believing in an alt reality is a good thing. How is the government supposed to properly function if a minority holds the majority for ransom not over ideological disputes but over disputes about facts and alt facts?

As the ability to legislate is stifled people will lose faith in democracy and seek strongmen to govern. That’s not a good thing.

I agree with you on alternate reality being a threat. FOX is acting more like a propaganda operation than a news organization. I try to watch it and listen to AM radio to broaden my news intake, but there is only so much nonsense I can take. I hope that the middle Americans come back to the middle over time. Right now the majority are a little wacky, but I have hope for them. A lot of my family are there, so I may be irrationally optimistic.
 
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