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The Caravan

“Politicians in our times feed their clichés to television, where even those who wish to disagree repeat them. Television purports to challenge political language by conveying images, but the succession from one frame to another can hinder a sense of resolution. Everything happens fast, but nothing actually happens. Each story on televised news is ”breaking” until it is displaced by the next one. So we are hit by wave upon wave but never see the ocean.

The effort to define the shape and significance of events requires words and concepts that elude us when we are entranced by visual stimuli. Watching televised news is sometimes little more than looking at someone who is also looking at a picture. We take this collective trance to be normal. We have slowly fallen into it.

More than half a century ago, the classic novels of totalitarianism warned of the domination of screens, the suppression of books, the narrowing of vocabularies, and the associated difficulties of thought. In Ray Bradbury’s Fahrenheit 451, published in 1953, firemen find and burn books while most citizens watch interactive television. In George Orwell’s 1984, published in 1949, books are banned and television is two-way, allowing the government to observe citizens at all times. In 1984, the language of visual media is highly constrained, to starve the public of the concepts needed to think about the present, remember the past, and consider the future. One of the regime’s projects is to limit the language further by eliminating ever more words with each edition of the official dictionary.

Staring at screens is perhaps unavoidable, but the two-dimensional world makes little sense unless we can draw upon a mental armory that we have developed somewhere else. When we repeat the same words and phrases that appear in the daily media, we accept the absence of a larger framework. To have such a framework requires more concepts, and having more concepts requires reading. So get the screens out of your room and surround yourself with books. The characters in Orwell’s and Bradbury’s books could not do this—but we still can.”
― Timothy Snyder, On Tyranny: Twenty Lessons from the Twentieth Century
 
I think everyone who crosses the border should be put in a Holiday Inn Express or housed up with the morally superior left.

Obviously, having border laws is an outdated practice. I'm outraged because people who cross the border illegally are caught are detained and possibly separated from their families. I'm so upset over this barbaric practice, I'm going to complain about it online, but not do anything in real life because that would be inconvenient. I'm privileged to have fake outrage.

We are the world. Imagine.
 
I think when people bring this up they are referencing the political turmoil and degradation of civil society and the rise of nationalistic demagoguery. It feels appropriate in light of the fact that someone tried (and failed gladly) to blow up a dozen prominent politicians including a substantial portion of the previous administration this week, while the current president goes about blaming the victims, and encouraging false flag conspiracy theories.
It is laughable to think this guy was so stupid that he thought Obama might sit down, open his morning mail, and get a big surprise. If this idiot had succeeded in blowing anybody up it would have definitely been someone other than his intended targets.
I'm not an alarmist and I don't think we're there yet. There are no brown shirts yet. But there is a growing cult of personality surrounding our president that is concerning.

I see and hear people raving about how wonderful he is, and they totally overlook any negative information. They, the Trumpers, take any criticism of Trump as a personal insult. The irrational approval of the president, and willingness to support anything he says or does is a threat to our democracy.

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I saw the same thing with Obama supporters. Many of them treated him and looked at him as if he was a deity. The people who do this, on either side of the aisle, are dolts. Sadly, both parties have plenty of these types of people.
 
45 is President Trump, because he is the 45th president of the USA.
Why is he called that? Because I'm just lazy. Lol

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Calling the Presidents by numbers is a recent development. I don't recall doing it in my younger days. I believe it started with George Bush #43 to distinguish him from George Bush #41. It's a handy way to know how many presidents we have had (although I don't know how they are counting Grover Cleveland - time to Google).

EDIT:
Grover Cleveland is counted as our 22nd and 24th president.

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I'm going to complain about it online, but not do anything in real life because that would be inconvenient. I'm privileged to have fake outrage.

We are the world. Imagine.

You know complaining online about things doesn't preclude people from taking action in real life too.

It is laughable to think this guy was so stupid that he thought Obama might sit down, open his morning mail, and get a big surprise. If this idiot had succeeded in blowing anybody up it would have definitely been someone other than his intended targets.

Take one look at this guy's twitter account and tell me that. He was clearly a few beers short of a six pack.
 
@Joe Bagadonuts on your Obama/Trump diety complex.

The first thought I had is that Obama and Trump are night and day as far as respectability and morality. I respected Pres. Obama. Even when I disliked his policies. I don’t respect or like Trump. Even when I agree with his polices.

The second thought I had is one following, Trumps, seems to be far more angry and aggressive than the other.
 
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I don't think what you're saying is really the point, however. I'm not aware of any suggestion that either administration was "like" Hitler's. Not in the way you're thinking of it, in any event. There is a saying, attributed to Mark Twain, (but likely a false attribution), that history does not repeat, but that it rhymes. Which to me implies there are templates of behavior that can be expected to play out in a similar fashion, given similar conditions.

Something you may have noticed myself emphasize often enough in the Trump threads, is that Trump appeals to the baser instincts of his core followers. And when there are forces, such as intense cultural changes, occurring in a society, this causes degrees of stress, anxiety, fear, anger in segments of a population, that can be taken advantage of by clever demagogues. Like Trump. This is, after all, basically what Trump is doing by suggesting "Middle Easteners" are hiding in the caravan. He is playing on the "fear of the other", and fear in general. This is a common tactic of an authoritarian. It does not mean that there is an exact equivalency, lurking around the corner, between Trump and Hitler, and that someday we can expect mass atrocities by Trump. It's not suggesting that. What the whole comparison has been about is some see similar conditions between the two eras and nations resulting in a similar reliance on an authority figure promising to restore their nation's greatness, and creating "others" for segments of the population to focus their fear and anger.

That's really very different then the way I believe you are perceiving the observation. But correct me if I'm wrong.

As Timothy Snyder put it: Post Truth is pre-fascism. We are in a Post Truth era, and we have a president that substitutes alternative facts for facts. Today, for instance, he utilized a dog whistle for his core followers by issuing a tweet in which he talk about "this 'bomb' stuff", the dog whistle being putting "bomb" in quotations in order to suggest the so-called MAGA Bomber was a false flag operation. Or so I would interpret that use of quotation marks.

“Fascists despised the small truths of daily existence, loved slogans that resonated like a new religion, and preferred creative myths to history or journalism. They used new media, which at the time was radio, to create a drumbeat of propaganda that aroused feelings before people had time to ascertain facts. And now, as then, many people confused faith in a hugely flawed leader with the truth about the world we all share. Post-truth is pre-fascism.”
― Timothy Snyder, On Tyranny: Twenty Lessons from the Twentieth Century

“As observers of totalitarianism such as Victor Klemperer noticed, truth dies in four modes, all of which we have just witnessed. The first mode is the open hostility to verifiable reality, which takes the form of presenting inventions and lies as if they were facts.”
― Timothy Snyder, On Tyranny: Twenty Lessons from the Twentieth Century

“Fascists rejected reason in the name of will, denying objective truth in favor of a glorious myth articulated by leaders who claimed to give voice to the people. They put a face on globalization, arguing that its complex challenges were the result of a conspiracy against the nation.”

― Timothy Snyder, On Tyranny: Twenty Lessons from the Twentieth Century


“Americans today are no wiser than the Europeans who saw democracy yield to fascism, Nazism, or communism in the twentieth century. One advantage is that we might learn from their experience. Now is a good time to do so.”
― Timothy Snyder, On Tyranny: Twenty Lessons from the Twentieth Century


Now, this is not scare tactics, Joe. This is not fear mongering. Trump practices both. But this is instead simply an effort to learn the lessons of history. It is most unfortunate, IMHO, that comparisons with 1930's Germany cannot be made without folks assuming a type of comparison is being made that suggests Trump=a future Hitler. No, it is to simply suggest other people in other places have placed their faith in leaders without realizing the mistake they are making...

I think all of Snyder's thoughts above address the comparison in a far more meaningful and thoughtful manner then is much more commonly assumed whenever the comparison does arise in conversation. And in particular, I find a great deal of meaning in his very simply observation that "post truth is pre-fascism".
What a great explanation of what it meant when right wing whackos compared Obama to Hitler (and when left wing whackos compare Trump to Hitler). Thanks Red. I wish people on both sides put that much thought into it. Unfortunately they don't. Not even close. There are many people on both sides who have compared candidates from the other side to Hitler, and they meant it in the most despicable way possible. The fact that you aren't aware that anyone is doing this with regard to Trump blows my mind.
 
@Joe Bagadonuts on your Obama/Trump diety complex.

The first thought I had is that Obama and Trump are night and day as far as respectability and morality. I respected Pres. Obama. Even when I disliked his policies. I don’t respect or like Trump. Even when I agree with his polices.

The second thought I had is one following, Trumps, seems to be far more angry and aggressive than the other.
I understand and agree with what you are saying in your first paragraph. I don't understand your second paragraph.
 
What a week for domestic terrorism. I’m glad that we’re focusing so much on this caravan. Even sending the military there to do... something? It’s so weird to me that this caravan has gotten so much attention. It triggers so many. I think we have bigger issues to deal with. In particular, right wing terrorism. Trumpers, Nazis, etc. how many pipe bombs were sent through the mail by poor people in a caravan? How many synagogues were shot up by people seeking asylum?

We have problems that need to be addressed
 
It's naive to think that those who complain online take meaningful action.

Does speaking out on social media count? There are so many people who recognize the way Trump is ruining what it means to be an American yet aren't speaking out, unless it's anonymously. And many are just tired of it and try to ignore it. But I believe it is our duty at this place and time to voice our reservations and engage those who support him. We are Germany in 1937.
 
I'm sure by now most of you here have seen the tragic news of the antisemite who shot up a synagogue in Pittsburgh today killing at least 10 people.

What you may not have seen is that he had been posting on his Gab account in recent days about how this caravan of immigrants is a Jewish plot funded by George Soros to invade our country.

There is something seriously wrong in our society and the rot stretches from the highest levels of government to the darkest corners of the internet. We can not continue like this.
 
The fact that you aren't aware that anyone is doing this with regard to Trump blows my mind.

No, Joe. I was not aware that anyone here, on this forum, was basically saying Trump=Hitler. Maybe I missed just such an equivalency. That's possible, I suppose, but that's what I was referring to. It was not my intention to blow your mind. I imagine there exists, in our society in general, people who would simply make that call. But I draw the comparison in the manner in which I described. I mean look, we are talking about two entirely different historical personages. It's not as if anyone is saying Trump is the reincarnation of Hitler. Anyway, I appreciate that you do understand the manner in which I am willing to compare 1930's Germany with early 21st century America.

Also, please note that I posted a link to the situation in Brazil. The cultural war ripping that nation apart appears to be quite similar to the culture wars in the United States. I find that fact fascinating, and it does take us away from the comparisons between our nation and Germany of 100 years ago, and instead allows us to examine and note the rise of right wing authoritarianism in our own era. To me, it illustrates that Trump is part of a crisis that is affecting democratic nations in general.

I believe both comparisons, both observations, are useful in understanding the emergence of Trump at this time. On the one hand, the lesson contained in the observation that history does not repeat, but it rhymes. And the observation that the rise of right wing authoritarianism is not confined to the United States. Both observations are helpful in understanding Trumpism. Or so I believe. Mine is not the only point of view, but I will always think my point of view through. I don't settle for half *** sloppy, I hold myself to a standard.

I believe it should also be pointed out that Brazil is a very young democracy. America is much older, relatively that is, a nation that only dates from 1789 is not really all that "old", but in general the age of nation states is not that old. At any rate, we have an advantage, hopefully, of being more resilient to forces that may erode or endanger democratic institutions. Time will tell. But, that Trump represents a danger to our democratic institutions is something that has concerned me virtually from the very day he descended the escalator in Trump Tower and announced his candidacy for our highest office. I will admit that it has been a frustrating experience to me that not everyone shared my sense of alarm.

Edit: I háve posted this before, recently, and probably in the main Trump thread. A discussion by America's leading scholar on the Holocaust regarding comparing 1930's Germany and early 21st century America. I respect the man, and I will not blow off his observations. He is thoughtful about this. I like to think I am as well:

https://www.nybooks.com/articles/2018/10/25/suffocation-of-democracy/
 
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Oh Jesus. Just read that some militia groups are putting people on the border to stop this caravan. One group plans to have 100 armed men there.

Smfh
 
It's naive to think that those who complain online take meaningful action.

Well, speaking out online, and attempting to educate others as to one's own point of view, is itself a form of activism. In fact, it's a new form. Social media was not available decades ago. I was completely enveloped in the anti-war activism of the Vietnam era. It is true that, in general, we have not seen, today, that level of "in the street" activism of the mid to late 60's, and early 70's. There is a difference. It most definetly interests me, as I have felt the level of divisiveness today actually exceeds that of the Vietnam and Civil Rights era. I may be mistaken. That was a lifetime ago, and the issues then are not the same. But, time will tell. Certainly online activism, and I see it that way, not "online complaining", does not preclude activism in other venues. But, these days so many of us have become denizens of social media communities.
 
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