The Caravan

[DasJazz]

Which, if taken in the mid 2000s, would be a more accurate description since illegal immigration was at its highest back then.

Otherwise, it would be an inaccurate description and causes me to assume that you’re just trying to stir the pot.

Again, no one has been able to answer me this, if immigrating LEGALLY, truly is the issue that republicans have, why isn’t there any talk about streamlining that process? Instead, I hear calls for xenophobia like “******** countries” and “build the wall” and whining about “unknown middle easterners.”

Lol, here you go with your Insert-phobia and insert-ist stuff again. I do wonder if you actually are this delusional or if its an act.

 

[Just Ted]

For me, one of the most disturbing aspects of our current political environment is the loss of agreement on what is truth. FOX and the right media present alternative facts as if they were equally valid, Republicans then orient themselves to that skewed world view and act like everyone should get in line with that view. When reality contradicts that worldview instead of reorienting themselves to a more accurate view of what is going on, they dig in deeper because they are so emotionally invested. Fox regularly uses ridicule and shaming to present propaganda to their viewers. They then act outraged when people react to the provocation with outrage. In the era of Trump no common understanding of right or wrong is safe. Deficits are bad? Nope, not if they fund the rich. Nationalism is a threat to democracy? Nope, not if the president says no. A free press a constitutional safeguard against tyranny? Nope, not if they don't agree with Trump. Then they are the enemy of the people. Alliances the bulwark of our national defense? Nope, not if they don't fit with the Trumpian view that Russia is our ally. Putin murdering rivals is abhorrent? Nope, not in the Trump worldview, because the CIA does the same thing. 1984, Animal Farm indeed.


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using JazzFanz mobile app

It's a dang good thing that only Republicans do this! Seriously, this country has turned into Red Rover. Let's hold our lines no matter what! Even if they send their smartest brightest and sometimes dumbest our way we will just hold our line. They may be a positive asset to our team, but hold our line. Red Rover Red Rover... Our republic is over. Both parties are holding too strong to the far corner of their belief systems. There was a time where we could compromise. Now we belittle and degrade anyone without the same belief system we have. Interesting that we blind ourselves to the violence in our own parties, but seek out and attack those of violence in the other party.

 

[JAZZGASM]

Please. Obama detain people as well. What he did not do, and no other President has done, is separate families for the crime of crossing the border. You really see no difference there?

Obama didn't have a blanket policy like Trump, but families were still separated under Bush and Obama. When you have a Federal crime, and an adult breaks that crime, the punishment is Federal prison. The intent was to put the violators in prison and the children into temporary care, hence the separation. Politics aside, illegal border crossing is currently a crime. We have a lot of crimes that I think should not result in someone going to prison (and potentially separating them from families). I know of no other Federal crimes where an offender gets to stay with their family. I know a husband and wife who both went to jail on drug charges for weed and their kids were put in the system. During trial, the wife was acquitted, but it still took months for her to get her kids back. Kind of crazy for weed, but that was the law at the time. and occurred in state that happened to have an overzealous social worker dealing with the matter.

I personally think we need a system that makes it easy for people that want to be productive members of society to come across the border. I'd like a system where anyone who enters has a two or three year process to citizenship. These people will have the opportunity to apply for and get jobs legally, and pay taxes and qualify for benefits. Entry includes fingerprinting and a background check. If, after you arrive, you join gangs, commit violent crimes or felonies or root for the Houston Rockets you are out. If you don't check in quarterly during this period and you are caught for anything else, you are out. If you follow the rules, then you get citizenship. If you get kicked out, you can't come back, and if you do, we'll send you go to prison. The large majority of people coming to the U.S. are looking for a better way of life, and are good people. Allowing them to come and work will be great for the economy, yet I do see the need to do something to ensure we are getting good people coming into the country.

 

[Stars Fan]

It's a dang good thing that only Republicans do this! Seriously, this country has turned into Red Rover. Let's hold our lines no matter what! Even if they send their smartest brightest and sometimes dumbest our way we will just hold our line. They may be a positive asset to our team, but hold our line. Red Rover Red Rover... Our republic is over. Both parties are holding too strong to the far corner of their belief systems. There was a time where we could compromise. Now we belittle and degrade anyone without the same belief system we have. Interesting that we blind ourselves to the violence in our own parties, but seek out and attack those of violence in the other party.

Okay
I like the red rover reference btw. I wonder how many have actually played the game. Times were good when you could gather the neighborhood to play red rover, kick the can, or smear the queer. My apologies for the offensive name of that last one, but that's what we called it. I loved that game.

While I agree that both major parties have violent fringe elements, and that we are increasingly polarized, I don't agree with the moral equivalence argument. The leaders of both parties do not equally incite violence with over the top rhetoric, mainly 45 does that. There are Maxine Waters type firebrands on the left, but there are many voices that condemn her for her calls to action. President Trump routinely belittles his political opponents and detractors and incites the mob on the right. And the voices calling for moderation have been silenced in the Republican party. The death of McCain and the demise of Flake have left the right without moderating voices. 44 routinely called for dialogue and calm, and the leaders in the democratic party don't lead chants of "lock him up!" Even when they have more evidence of wrong doing than Trump does. Sharp difference there.

I would love for there to be better dialogue and decorum in politics. I don't have great hopes in the short term for that to happen though. I do think it is vital that we return to following scientific, verifiable facts, and reject the myth and fear mongering wherever we find it.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[Deleted member 365]

Lol, here you go with your Insert-phobia and insert-ist stuff again. I do wonder if you actually are this delusional or if its an act.

Why make unsubstantiated claims that “unknown middle easterners” are advancing with this caravan?

 

[DasJazz]

Why make unsubstantiated claims that “unknown middle easterners” are advancing with this caravan?

Who? I did not do this, haven't heard it either and I have been following this situation relatively closely.

 

[Deleted member 365]

Who? I did not do this, haven't heard it either and I have been following this situation relatively closely.

But clearly you’ve been following this situation relatively closely... lol

 

[One Brow]

Obama didn't have a blanket policy like Trump, but families were still separated under Bush and Obama.

For first-time illegal border crossings s the sole crime? Here's a list of misdemeanors. How many do you think we can find that people are almost never jailed for?

https://www.ussc.gov/sites/default/...seminar/2012/4_Table_Federal_Misdemeanors.pdf

I had heard he was also planning to separate families of those asking for asylum, but I don't recall if that ever went forward or not.

 

[JAZZGASM]

For first-time illegal border crossings s the sole crime? Here's a list of misdemeanors. How many do you think we can find that people are almost never jailed for?

https://www.ussc.gov/sites/default/...seminar/2012/4_Table_Federal_Misdemeanors.pdf

I had heard he was also planning to separate families of those asking for asylum, but I don't recall if that ever went forward or not.

Yes, there are clear instances where immigrants were separated for border crossings based on prosecutions only for first time offense, especially prior to 2014 (keep in mind Bush did it too, none of this is new), when Obama changed his tune, Obama charged many first time offenders. After 2014, Obama changed his tactic and largely only charged multiple crossers or those charged with other offenses. I think the difference (I'm speculating) is Obama was separating families due to safety and other reasons. Trump was doing the same, but also doing it as a deterrent.

As far as misdemeanors where jail time can apply, I'm sure it does get applied in most crimes that are still enforced. But I think that is a very odd argument. Just because some laws are not enforced gives no justification to not enforce another one. If the Trump administration wants to enforce the law on the books, he can, unless it ruled unconstitutional or the law is changed.

And as far as separating asylum seekers, there is no way Trump's administration would be allowed to separate them, as there is international law that would prevent him from doing so.

 

[Gameface]

Yes, there are clear instances where immigrants were separated for border crossings based on prosecutions only for first time offense, especially prior to 2014 (keep in mind Bush did it too, none of this is new), when Obama changed his tune, Obama charged many first time offenders. After 2014, Obama changed his tactic and largely only charged multiple crossers or those charged with other offenses. I think the difference (I'm speculating) is Obama was separating families due to safety and other reasons. Trump was doing the same, but also doing it as a deterrent.

As far as misdemeanors where jail time can apply, I'm sure it does get applied in most crimes that are still enforced. But I think that is a very odd argument. Just because some laws are not enforced gives no justification to not enforce another one. If the Trump administration wants to enforce the law on the books, he can, unless it ruled unconstitutional or the law is changed.

And as far as separating asylum seekers, there is no way Trump's administration would be allowed to separate them, as there is international law that would prevent him from doing so.

You're saying "first time offenders" and OB asked about first time misdemeanor offenders.

Trump absolutely did something different than anyone else. He started jailing and prosecuting people for illegally crossing the border, which is a misdemeanor. That is different than what was going on previously.

 

[idestroyedthetoilet]

You're saying "first time offenders" and OB asked about first time misdemeanor offenders.

Trump absolutely did something different than anyone else. He started jailing and prosecuting people for illegally crossing the border, which is a misdemeanor. That is different than what was going on previously.

That's why Corrections Corporation of America was bragging on conference calls that there family detention prison was operating at full capacity?

This is what we get for electing that faux liberal. He laid the foundation.

 

[JAZZGASM]

You're saying "first time offenders" and OB asked about first time misdemeanor offenders.

Trump absolutely did something different than anyone else. He started jailing and prosecuting people for illegally crossing the border, which is a misdemeanor. That is different than what was going on previously.

Wrong.