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The Non-Jazz NBA Thread in the Jazz Section

Saint Cy of JFC said:
They gave them Conley because it was the best deal for Utah they could get. Don't act like it was a galaxy brain play.
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I mean maybe? I think the deal was kinda lopsided in Minnys direction. We put in more assets than we probably should have to make it happen. There were other avenues available to get the Lakers a DLo quality replacement. A lot of us here saw this as an eventuall outcome at the time.
 
framer said:
I mean maybe? I think the deal was kinda lopsided in Minnys direction. We put in more assets than we probably should have to make it happen. There were other avenues available to get the Lakers a DLo quality replacement. A lot of us here saw this as an eventuall outcome at the time.
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It's not a maybe. It's a fact.
 
KqWIN said:
I understand the use of on/off. Point is, it is team dependent. Like I said, I've got no problem with it being team dependent. I'm saying you can't dismiss something for being team dependent and then use something that is also team dependent, which on/off is. Both on/off and strictly on court rating have a place in discussion despite the fact that they are team dependent. A player can have a higher on/off one year and still be worse than he in a year where his on/off was lower. And again, I've mentioned the stats the actually attempt to isolate a player's impact independent of teammates. Rudy's drop off is drastic in those metrics. So yeah, the on/off is really great for Rudy this year. But on the other hand, we have all these other things that point to some slippage.

We're talking in circles at this point, but I'll just leave it at this: I think Rudy played at a significantly higher level than this last year and in previous seasons. What made Rudy who he is was that no matter who he played with, he was going to produce elite defense when he was on the court and he was going to play enough total minutes that it would amount to an elite overall defense for your team. This is why I value on court rating alone. With Rudy, he was good enough that no matter who he was with you always got elite defense. If you don't think he was better before, I think you're underselling just how good he was, but we'll have to agree to disagree. He can always bounce back, and maybe he will as chemistry grows. I would feel like I'm disrespecting Rudy if I think his individual play has always been what we're seeing this year.
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Again.. its not team dependat, its rotation/player pair dependant. That may be semantics, but either way it does not make it a team stat like DRtg which you quoted. The rotation dependancy would matter if I was comparing Rudy to Nurkic or someone else, but I'm actually using it to highlight Rudy and Randle impact so its perfectly valid here. We can also add Naz Reid to complete the set, in which case you will notice that Goberts -12.3 points allowed pretty much matches with Naz Reid (+4.5) and Julius Randle (+8.0) combined. The +0.2 difference is mainly coming from the small ball lineups where they only run one of their 3 bigs.

If you take a deeper look at their defensive metrics you will see that Minnesota is allowing 5.9 more paint points per game this season which is MORE than their difference in points allowed per game compared to last year. However during Rudy minutes, that total has only increased by 0.6 (from 30.9 to 31.5), so during the 14.9 minutes Rudy is not on the court they are actually allowing 5.3 extra points in the paint each game. I would go as far as to say that even the slight increase in paint points during Rudy minutes could be affected by his one new specific teammate playing worse help defense and allowing more uncontested drives, cuts, rolls and transition advantages.

I also trust @FrenchJazzFa who watches all Minny games when he says Rudy looks good. Thats also what I have seen in the few games I've watched.
 
I agree with both of you at some part. It's pretty hard to compare individual performance when you played with a different group. Randle and NAZ are really bad in defense and awful when they play together. From what my eyes see, Rudy is at the same level he was last year but as i would say, at some moment of the games, i see him also frustrating and giving up on some actions just because he is tired covering lazy *** Randle.... which explain some of the data.
I truly believe unless Finch show leadership and take strong decisions like let Randle come from the bench ( but it won't happen as Finch is way too soft) that this team will implode before deadline. Finch forget that during KAT injuries last year, NAZ was a starter and the team play pretty well. Also playing only 8 players all the time when you got Joe, Garza, Minott on the bench as not smart. This team lost his identity right now and is closer than a lottery team than anything else. Good year for f... up! I think a good pick await us this year. If we ended bottom 3 and Minny miss the play-in which can definitely happen, we may accelerate the rebuild !
 
KqWIN said:
Lamelo is incredible.
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I wouldnt go too far in praising him. He takes plenty of dumb *** shots, some of which produce great highlights and some of which just end up hurting his efficiency.

I get strong Trae Young vibes. Leading the NBA in 3PA and making them at below league average rate and shooting all kinds of one-legged logo crap... while your team is losing. His usage of 37.8% is peak James Harden level, but he isnt James Harden level iso player or shotmaker.
 
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HermanG said:
I wouldnt go too far in praising him. He takes plenty of dumb *** shots, some of which produce great highlights and some of which just end up hurting his efficiency.

I get strong Trae Young vibes. Leading the NBA in 3PA and making them at below league average rate and shooting all kinds of one-legged logo crap... while your team is losing. His usage of 37.8% is peak James Harden level, but he isnt James Harden level iso player or shotmaker.
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6'7 Trae Young....
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
6'7 Trae Young....
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You seriously thought that was a comp? They are very different more than just that one way.

The vibes comment was about him taking all kinds of dumb shots with mediocre efficiency on a losing team. Dont know if that will translate, or if he would play smarter with better players around him.
 
HermanG said:
You seriously thought that was a comp? They are very different more than just that one way.

The vibes comment was about him taking all kinds of dumb shots with mediocre efficiency on a losing team. Dont know if that will translate, or if he would play smarter with better players around him.
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LaMelo is probably the most drastic example of a guy who learned basketball and came up in the current hyper individualistic, social media saturated environment that resembles a popularity contest more than anything else.

He's very talented, but I'm not sure if concepts like "team ball" or "efficiency" have ever had any real meaning for him. He's essentially only played for Youtube anyway since he was a small kid. Even now he doesn't seem to be that bothered by the fact that his team is losing.

His personal fanbase probably doesn't watch full games, only highlight edits. He'll, even that may be asking too much of them. I mean some of these things can be several minutes long.
 
Do you guys see who Lamelo is playing with? The worst thing he’s done is be injury prone. And yes, we can enjoy a player and be amazed simply because he’s fun to watch. I enjoy him because he’s unique, 1 of 1 kind of player. He also happens to be really freaking good, but his entertainment value is 10/10.

It’s funny to tear someone down with stats when on paper, his actually impact metrics are incredible. If you want to be me stats guy at least have an understanding of just how impressive this guy is on paper. You can’t call people causal while using the most casual arguments.
 
I’ve said this a few times now, but I like Matas. Don’t know if the shot will ever be good, but he’s a great athlete with a motor.
 
Kyshawn Geroge is also still very impressive as a rookie. Very skilled, competes on defense, and no conscience from 3 (we'll see if it ever goes in). I think he needs to put on size and gain weight....something I noticed is that he was 30 lbs heavier than Cody at the combine. Cody is like 2-3 muscle watch seasons away from being the skinny guy who needs to add weight.
 
I would be so upset if I'm a wolves fan. You traded away a player that had good chemistry with the community and other players for nothing. You're now trying to trade away the player you wanted the most in that deal..... just a disaster
 
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