The official "let's impeach Trump" thread

[sirkickyass]

Why was she a Trump supporter? Was she mostly disconnected from politics and voted for someone not named Hillary? Was she a single issue voter who felt like Trump was her last hope to save her guns, appoint conservative justices, or protect America from the brown horde? Did she get caught up in the whole, “we need a disruption in our government” wave that included both conservatives and liberals? Or what?

I think it was much simpler than that. She was 29 and her first job was working as a medical assistant in a private doctor's office. So she was 19-20 years old when Obamacare rolled out and got subjected to a constant stream of argument that it was ruining her boss' business and complaining from all her coworkers who were dealing with the new billing standards and codes.

I don't think she ever shook the idea that the ACA was bad after that. She didn't know much about the rest of politics, but had a strong opinion about that issue. Like I said, it's worth talking to people to figure out the story.

 

[sirkickyass]

I’m guessing @sirkickyass might have some thoughts about this? What effect does this administration's efforts to blame the 2016 election interference have on the Ukrainian people? Certainly, they don’t like being attacked by a perceived ally like this. Nor do I doubt that Russian disinformation troll farms are missing this opportunity to undermine Ukraine’s young democracy.

So I get that this administration is trying to strong-arm their government into investigating the Bidens. But what does this do to the Ukrainian people? How are their best interests being served by Donald’s short-term political aspirations? Will this undermine American foreign policy long-term?

IMO: the biggest impact on Ukraine from all of this is the loss of the belief that they can count on the United States to support them on their Eastern border. It's not a coincidence that Zelensky agreed to the Steinmeier formula peace plan last week, which will effectively cede control of Lubhansk and Donetsk to Russian separatists in an effort to end the frozen conflict there. But that has the effect of giving Russia a veto over Ukrainian foreign policy going forward. They have now demonstrated, twice, that they can just take land on command.

 

[sirkickyass]

Just curious. Why aren't we talking about Russia Collusion anymore?

Ukraine and Russia are portions of the same story.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

The things you mentioned are things for us humans.
Non human creatures don't care about written histories or art or philosophy or whatever.

I was asking how humans have made the Earth a better place for the non humans living on it.

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The non humans are not intelligent life. In my answer I said that the world would still have beautiful places with no humans on it... but to what end? Every day would be essentially the same as the last and the same as the next. So yeah, the deer and the antelope would play, but then they would live out their lifecycle and then another generation of deer and antelope would play. And on and on, but no real accomplishment other than more of the same. It takes intelligent life to make intelligent accomplishments. Humans and their accomplishments are the reasons that life on earth matters, in my opinion. And if humans were gone, hopefully some other intelligent lifeform would eventually emerge. I'm confident that that species would also make mistakes (as well as accomplishments) just as our species has. Humans are a good thing.

 

[colton]

What world is this guy living in? Not the real one.

 

[Deleted member 365]

Does this admin think this will help things? I think this strategy will backfire. Makes it look like they’re hiding things.

And that’s probably the reason:

 

[Deleted member 365]

If you’re a Trumper, aren’t you angry over Sondland not testifying today? After all, he’s (a) not anonymous and (b) would provide first hand knowledge (not hearsay) on how NOT corrupt this administration has been in Ukraine. Right? If anything, his testimony should clear Trump’s name UNLESS what the whistleblower has said is true. Right?

Then again, I’m not a stable genius whose wisdom is great and unmatched.

 

[Jazzta]

I meant we may as well relax over impeachment since the outcomes in both the House and Senate are pretty well set to go down along partisan lines. That all should happen sometime this winter and then we can worry for real about the actual election where the outcome is more uncertain. Still, all in all, I’m fairly optimistic about 2020, in part, because I don’t put the blame for 2016 all on voters. We were given two terrible candidates. I expect Warren to be a stronger and less polarizing candidate than Clinton and a choice undecided voters can actually feel positive about voting for rather than agonizing over the lesser of two evils.

You sound pretty certain about Warren winning the nomination. I don’t think she would be the best bet to defeat Trump tbh.

 

[Jazzta]

Stopped at your insult. If you can't conversate like an adult I really don't care to conversate. I ask again with all due respect, if you can't talk to me without insults or show any respect then please just don't. "We are all Americans here".

You try too hard bro, we’re all too polarized here. Go find intelligent conversations elsewhere, we like to get at each other’s throats around here.

 

[Red]

Does this admin think this will help things? I think this strategy will backfire. Makes it look like they’re hiding things.

No, it's not a good look. But, if the Democrats can't get the judiciary to act expedicuously, and rule against the stonewalling that denies the status of Congress as a co-equal branch, with the checks and balances power of oversight over the Executive branch, then it will be the Democrat's impeachment inquiry that will backfire. So far, I just don't have a lot of confidence in the Democrats to overcome all the stonewalling by Trump.

 

[fishonjazz]

The non humans are not intelligent life. In my answer I said that the world would still have beautiful places with no humans on it... but to what end? Every day would be essentially the same as the last and the same as the next. So yeah, the deer and the antelope would play, but then they would live out their lifecycle and then another generation of deer and antelope would play. And on and on, but no real accomplishment other than more of the same. It takes intelligent life to make intelligent accomplishments. Humans and their accomplishments are the reasons that life on earth matters, in my opinion. And if humans were gone, hopefully some other intelligent lifeform would eventually emerge. I'm confident that that species would also make mistakes (as well as accomplishments) just as our species has. Humans are a good thing.

So humans have made the Earth better for humans is your point. Well ya, I agree 100%. We have it better than the cavemen did.

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[Red]

The White House signals it will not cooperate with the impeachment inquiry:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/08/us/politics/sondland-trump-ukraine-impeach.html

WASHINGTON — The White House all but declared war on the House impeachment inquiry on Tuesday, intervening for the first time to block the testimony of a key witness as President Trump signaled his administration would try to starve investigators of more witnesses and documents.

The decision to block Gordon D. Sondland, the United States ambassador to the European Union, from speaking with investigators for three House committees came just hours before he was to appear on Capitol Hill, provoking an immediate conflict with potentially profound consequences for the inquiry and for the president himself.

Mr. Trump, defiant as investigators dig further into his efforts to pressure Ukraine to find dirt on his political rivals, declared the inquiry illegitimate in a signal that he plans to stonewall Congress, an act that could itself build the case for charging him in an impeachment proceeding with obstruction.