Trade deadline discussion

[Handlogten's Heros]

There is no situation in life where the experts are always right so we agree on that. That is completely different than knowing where the money is being spent. I dont see any situation of going over the cap with the owners are not in the middle of the approval process. As for the overpaying part, I am sure it has happened for all teams but we can agree to disagree on the frequency you suggest and completely fabricated notion that we bid against ourselves. I have no problem with differences of opinion but the idea that our FO or DL are incompetent and sloppy is ludicrous.

I know where the money is spent when it comes to salary cap... its basically public ****ing knowledge. We put ourselves in a spot where we were slightly over the tax. Did Ryan know... probably. Does he know the full cap sheet and ramifications of being in the repeater tax... maybe, but he also trusts someone in the front office not to **** that up. The guy ain't filing his own tax returns... he has people for that.

You explain this dynamic and changing environment but any dumbass with excel and understanding could tell that if we use the full MLE along with the contract we handed out to JC would put us just above the tax once you met the minimum roster requirements... we were over by like $500kish but with no places to cut because everyone was a minimum guy. So lets say you ask Favs to take $300k less and JC to take $300k less this year... is that a deal breaker? I'm guessing not. If it was is Favs the only backup center that can possibly fill that role... there were a **** ton of guys we could have got that made a little less... there were guys available at the minimum.

Even if they had to have Favs and JC at the numbers the got... The other route would have been to slide down in the draft from 27 to a mid 2nd rounder. Would have shaved 1.2M and got us under the tax. I am sure the love Dok so much they had to have him... but they also brought in a guy on a big contract for three years right after drafting him... so how confident were they really.

In the Conley deal there were not a lot of suitors... Detroit, us, or he could stay in Memphis. We paid full price and then some... even after those assholes strung us out at the trade deadline and leaked out the trade.

This summer we used several second round picks to offload centers. One we drafted when we already had 2 established centers... then we brought in another in Udoh because we didn't trust a rookie. We continued picking up his rookie deal even though we clearly didn't trust him. Eventually we use a second to dump the option we picked up.

I didn't say they were incompetent. I explained what I meant by sloppy. Ending up a couple million over the tax when you had opportunities to duck it is sloppy spreadsheet work... sorry. Using seconds to clean up several backup center messes only to use your first round pick and MLE on backup centers is sloppy. There were years we operated at or below the salary floor rather than using excess cap space... kinda sloppy.

 

[homeytennis]

Him and Exum drink from the same fountain of glass bones

Is Rodney ded too?

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

There is no situation in life where the experts are always right so we agree on that. That is completely different than knowing where the money is being spent. I dont see any situation of going over the cap with the owners are not in the middle of the approval process. As for the overpaying part, I am sure it has happened for all teams but we can agree to disagree on the frequency you suggest and completely fabricated notion that we bid against ourselves. I have no problem with differences of opinion but the idea that our FO or DL are incompetent and sloppy is ludicrous.

Remember when Mike was benched last year then the front office intervened and he was a starter a few hours later... kinda sloppy.

Remember when we had a couple star players feuding and the front office kinda hung Rudy out to dry? Is that all star management? What about when they let it linger on? They are lucky Rudy is mature and wanted to rectify the situation.

I don't have all the details but it doesn't mean I can't spot where there are issues or where there was poor planning or asset management.

 

[infection]

I know where the money is spent when it comes to salary cap... its basically public ****ing knowledge. We put ourselves in a spot where we were slightly over the tax. Did Ryan know... probably. Does he know the full cap sheet and ramifications of being in the repeater tax... maybe, but he also trusts someone in the front office not to **** that up. The guy ain't filing his own tax returns... he has people for that.

You explain this dynamic and changing environment but any dumbass with excel and understanding could tell that if we use the full MLE along with the contract we handed out to JC would put us just above the tax once you met the minimum roster requirements... we were over by like $500kish but with no places to cut because everyone was a minimum guy. So lets say you ask Favs to take $300k less and JC to take $300k less this year... is that a deal breaker? I'm guessing not. If it was is Favs the only backup center that can possibly fill that role... there were a **** ton of guys we could have got that made a little less... there were guys available at the minimum.

Even if they had to have Favs and JC at the numbers the got... The other route would have been to slide down in the draft from 27 to a mid 2nd rounder. Would have shaved 1.2M and got us under the tax. I am sure the love Dok so much they had to have him... but they also brought in a guy on a big contract for three years right after drafting him... so how confident were they really.

In the Conley deal there were not a lot of suitors... Detroit, us, or he could stay in Memphis. We paid full price and then some... even after those assholes strung us out at the trade deadline and leaked out the trade.

This summer we used several second round picks to offload centers. One we drafted when we already had 2 established centers... then we brought in another in Udoh because we didn't trust a rookie. We continued picking up his rookie deal even though we clearly didn't trust him. Eventually we use a second to dump the option we picked up.

I didn't say they were incompetent. I explained what I meant by sloppy. Ending up a couple million over the tax when you had opportunities to duck it is sloppy spreadsheet work... sorry. Using seconds to clean up several backup center messes only to use your first round pick and MLE on backup centers is sloppy. There were years we operated at or below the salary floor rather than using excess cap space... kinda sloppy.

 

[infection]

Remember when Mike was benched last year then the front office intervened and he was a starter a few hours later... kinda sloppy.

Remember when we had a couple star players feuding and the front office kinda hung Rudy out to dry? Is that all star management? What about when they let it linger on? They are lucky Rudy is mature and wanted to rectify the situation.

I don't have all the details but it doesn't mean I can't spot where there are issues or where there was poor planning or asset management.

Bro we’re the number 1 seed. Obviously hanging Rudy out to dry was the right decision.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Bro we’re the number 1 seed. Obviously hanging Rudy out to dry was the right decision.

The #1 seed that's looking like a 2nd round out if any of us are willing to be honest.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Bro we’re the number 1 seed. Obviously hanging Rudy out to dry was the right decision.

The #1 seed that's looking like a 2nd round out if any of us are willing to be honest.

They've built a good team. They have done a ton of really good things. They are a good front office.

They have also had some mess ups... many of which I and others have called out at the time and were proven right. I just get irritated when folks here suggest this is hindsight or a fan thinking he is smarter than the front office. I'm wrong a lot too... If i was Ryan I'd have some questions this offseason or next about why we didn't plan just a little better.

 

[Gameface]

Him and Exum drink from the same fountain of glass bones

 

[Gameface]

The #1 seed that's looking like a 2nd round out if any of us are willing to be honest.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Another piece of evidence that we kinda messed up the cap stuff... we sent Tucker to Cleveland and it cost us a second rounder... we got a little cash in the deal but we could have just waived him... why didn't we just waive him? because he had a small amount of his salary that was guaranteed and would count against the cap... like $450k. Why give away another pick like that if you aren't trying to clean the cap up a bit?

 

[Carbon13]

This team feels 2005 Suns-y to me. Were gonna have a great reg season, but we have just enough flaws (namely size defensively on the perimeter) to truly compete in the ‘yoffs. (Maybe 2010 Spursy is a better correlary, just before they got Kawhi and added wing size)

 

[NAOS]

Another piece of evidence that we kinda messed up the cap stuff... we sent Tucker to Cleveland and it cost us a second rounder... we got a little cash in the deal but we could have just waived him... why didn't we just waive him? because he had a small amount of his salary that was guaranteed and would count against the cap... like $450k. Why give away another pick like that if you aren't trying to clean the cap up a bit?

That deal will forever be a mystery. And as my memories of the details fade, the mystery is getting even weirder.

 

[infection]

That deal will forever be a mystery. And as my memories of the details fade, the mystery is getting even weirder.

Nah. As of 3/25/21 we’re the first seed. It was all part of the master plan as this moment will be frozen in time, and upon it pivots all eternity.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

That deal will forever be a mystery. And as my memories of the details fade, the mystery is getting even weirder.

It will forever be a mystery just like the Mike Conley benching that was announced and then Quin just changed his mind. Do you really think a multi million dollar team would not communicate with one another and just botch that? Impossible! A coach just changed his mind... nothing to see here.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

The #1 seed that's looking like a 2nd round out if any of us are willing to be honest.

Of the following 4 teams, at least 2 will be eliminated by the 2nd round: Jazz, Clippers, Lakers, Nuggets. That's how tough the West is.

 

[NUMBERICA]

That deal will forever be a mystery. And as my memories of the details fade, the mystery is getting even weirder.

It's not weird if you subscribe to Occam's Razor, which would state that the Jazz just did a bad job.

 

[framer]

The #1 seed that's looking like a 2nd round out if any of us are willing to be honest.

Yeah, every single team has flaws, just like we do. Getting out of the West will be tough, but we get the #1 seed, we are in a pretty good seat. We can play defense, we can score at the same time. It has been a long damn time when we had both of those.

Are we assuming that the Lakers will just become healthy and flip a switch come playoff time? That's a big assumption, especially after they reel off a 8-10 game losing streak. Right now it looks a lot like they might put themselves together for the 6th seed. To get the 8th, they would have to drop to 7, lose the first play in game, then win the second. That scenario doesn't seem likely.

The Clippers are a hot mess. They will snag the 3 seed and get the Lakers in the first or second round.

All we really have to do is beat Denver. We are entirely capable of beating Denver, especially with a real home court advantage over that bubble crap.

I ain't scared, bring 'em on. Jazz haven't had home court in 2 decades. Every series we have won since then has been an upset. We have a really good team.

 

[KqWIN]

Don’t know if someone already mentioned this...but if the Jazz really thought they could use another shooter on a cost controlled contract, why did we not just draft Desmond Bane?

 

[LoPo]

I know where the money is spent when it comes to salary cap... its basically public ****ing knowledge. We put ourselves in a spot where we were slightly over the tax. Did Ryan know... probably. Does he know the full cap sheet and ramifications of being in the repeater tax... maybe, but he also trusts someone in the front office not to **** that up. The guy ain't filing his own tax returns... he has people for that.

You explain this dynamic and changing environment but any dumbass with excel and understanding could tell that if we use the full MLE along with the contract we handed out to JC would put us just above the tax once you met the minimum roster requirements... we were over by like $500kish but with no places to cut because everyone was a minimum guy. So lets say you ask Favs to take $300k less and JC to take $300k less this year... is that a deal breaker? I'm guessing not. If it was is Favs the only backup center that can possibly fill that role... there were a **** ton of guys we could have got that made a little less... there were guys available at the minimum.

Even if they had to have Favs and JC at the numbers the got... The other route would have been to slide down in the draft from 27 to a mid 2nd rounder. Would have shaved 1.2M and got us under the tax. I am sure the love Dok so much they had to have him... but they also brought in a guy on a big contract for three years right after drafting him... so how confident were they really.

In the Conley deal there were not a lot of suitors... Detroit, us, or he could stay in Memphis. We paid full price and then some... even after those assholes strung us out at the trade deadline and leaked out the trade.

This summer we used several second round picks to offload centers. One we drafted when we already had 2 established centers... then we brought in another in Udoh because we didn't trust a rookie. We continued picking up his rookie deal even though we clearly didn't trust him. Eventually we use a second to dump the option we picked up.

I didn't say they were incompetent. I explained what I meant by sloppy. Ending up a couple million over the tax when you had opportunities to duck it is sloppy spreadsheet work... sorry. Using seconds to clean up several backup center messes only to use your first round pick and MLE on backup centers is sloppy. There were years we operated at or below the salary floor rather than using excess cap space... kinda sloppy.

Such an excellent post. Really covers the most recent moves that made many of us scratch our heads.

My prediction: we use this season's spending to rationalize a painful cut this coming offseason.

If we win a title, we went all in for it. We exhausted pretty much all resources outside of way future 1sts. If we don't win a title or even choke out early, our FO can say that spent they so much money this year going for it (Rudy, Don, JC, Favors, didn't trade anybody to skirt the LT, etc.).

At that point, we probably just wave Conley goodbye. He's the easiest band-aid to pull for a FO who spent money but doesn't want to exceed the LT again. The FO will say that Don is now ready to be our PG, and Conley's new contract would be detrimental to the finances. They could point to the JC deal as us having invested in another small guard for offense and that our starting unit needs more size and defense. I mean they could look to move Bogey instead, but that's a truly lateral move and Bogey plays a position where we are pretty paper thin.

I just want to go win the title. It's there for us to win. Everybody needs to pull their weight on both sides. It can be done. This is as good of a year as any....

 

[NUMBERICA]

Don’t know if someone already mentioned this...but if the Jazz really thought they could use another shooter on a cost controlled contract, why did we not just draft Desmond Bane?

I can’t handle this question.