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Woj: Celtics working to land both Gordon Hayward and Paul George

idiot said:
Pretty much this. I just don't think we can tank with Gobert. We might get to 35 wins. I don't think Gobert will go in on the plan if we somehow manage to rid ourselves of enough talent to get less than 35 wins. So the point is it's better to try to stay in the 45-50 win range than the 35 win range and hope that in the meantime we can get someone else to step up like Hayward and Gobert have so far.
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Losing Hayward would cost the Jazz 15+ wins? No player is that valuable. His VORP last season was just 4.0.

http://www.basketball-reference.com..._is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&order_by=vorp
 
Shocker00 said:
I expected this to happen, Boston trying to get better while the Jazz sit on their hands doing nothing. There is absolutely no reports on the Jazz pursuing PG13 but all the rest of the contenders in the league were attempting to get him. The Jazz already threw in the towel. I said this about a month ago the one that gets PG13 gets Hayward. This league has become about superteams, you need three all stars on your team and then the veterans is willing to sign for cheap. Jazz are about being good and not great!

Would you rather be on a team that's proactive or one that wants to stay home and bake the cake?
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I still think Lindsey is trying to go after Lillard. Seems like he could have already pulled the trigger on a Beverly or Rubio deal, but I think he's going to do his best to get us in the "super team" discussion. I think we can all agree that Beverly or Rubio may not move the needle for Hayward, but Lillard definitely would. Portland is in salary cap hell. I don't know if we have enough, but we'll probably have to send Exum+Hood+Favors and a pick or two, and we'll also have take on one of their horrible contracts. But this is the kind of deal that I think Lindsey is working towards.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Here are the options:

- Try to fill the holes... leads to Treadmill City population Us.
- Earnestly tank... this would include trading Rodney and anything else that might make us too good... including Gobert maybe (I can't do the Gobert trade... I've thought about it and it makes me so sad).
- Half *** tank... maybe Gobert gets suspended for PEDs or maybe we sit him every time we are on a winning streak. I just can't see us losing more than 30 games with Gobert.

Long term the right answer is to tank the eff out of the B, but how do you sell that to Gobert? He wants to be DPOY and that ain't happening where we will be record wise.

He's too much of a competitor to sign on to some dumb fake injury type plan. Basically Hayward leaving us screws us in the worst way possible.

I do not think they will have the stomach to tank... we likely get Rudy Gay or some other stupid thing.

If Hayward leaves we should play Dante and Mitchell and Bolomboy 45 minutes a night, but we won't.
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Yep... agree with almost everything here. Rudy Gay/Iggy to replace Hayward, trade assets to replace Hill and be on the treadmill for the next 4 years, then lose Gobert for nothing... then we can go to the thing we should have been doing from the very start - get high end talent from the draft.
 
r_u_s_t_b_u_c_k_e_t said:
Losing Hayward would cost the Jazz 15+ wins? No player is that valuable. His VORP last season was just 4.0.

http://www.basketball-reference.com..._is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&order_by=vorp
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It's not just Hayward. It's Hill too. It also has ramifications down the roster.

I think we can be around 40-44 wins team if they indeed go on and try to patch things up. The question is - is this what we want? For the next 4 years? What's the chance Rudy bolts after 4 Charlotte Hornets type years?
 
r_u_s_t_b_u_c_k_e_t said:
Losing Hayward would cost the Jazz 15+ wins? No player is that valuable. His VORP last season was just 4.0.

http://www.basketball-reference.com..._is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&order_by=vorp
Click to expand...

I won't speak ill of current jazzmen, I won't speak ill of current jazzmen,I won't speak ill of current jazzmen,I won't speak ill of current jazzmen,I won't speak ill of current jazzmen,I won't speak ill of current jazzmen,if he leaves I will comment on your post,I won't speak ill of current jazzmen,I won't speak ill of current jazzmen,I won't speak ill of current jazzmen.
 
stitches said:
It's not just Hayward. It's Hill too. It also has ramifications down the roster.

I think we can be around 40-44 wins team if they indeed go on and try to patch things up. The question is - is this what we want? For the next 4 years? What's the chance Rudy bolts after 4 Charlotte Hornets type years?
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Why'd you pick the Hornets... nothing makes me more limp than them.

He's right though the difference is substantial when you incorporate Hill.
 
Bawse Dawg said:
Wow. Sounds like a great way to lose both players and a bunch of assets. This is giving Hayward way too much power. Breaking the bank for George so Hayward stays and then giving him a 1+1? cmon now.
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All reports are that Hayward prefers a longer contract regardless of where he goes. What gives you the idea that he wants to sign a 1 +1? I wouldn't trade Exum but all the other assets are disposable ones that won't set us back if they are gone. We will be in the same boat.
 
stitches said:
Yep... agree with almost everything here. Rudy Gay/Iggy to replace Hayward, trade assets to replace Hill and be on the treadmill for the next 4 years, then lose Gobert for nothing... then we can go to the thing we should have been doing from the very start - get high end talent from the draft.
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So let's say Hayward leaves...

Go get every disappointing wing from the last few years... bring me stanley johnson, Mario Hezonja, TJ Warren, James Young (that would be like 5 losses by himself) give me some other dudes in bad situations Julius Randle, Bruno Cabocolo... put our development staff at work and uncover some potential.
 
I'd also move Hood for a first and a development project... so Philly for a first and Korkmaz... something like that... we have to do it right if he leaves.
 
Rumor of what Boston is offering for PG13

"I'm told #Celtics offer to IND for George is LAL/SAC pick from PHI, '19 MEM OR LAC pick, Crowder, $$ filler (Zeller pop name, Bradley poss)."

That's coming from Adam Kaufman
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I'd also move Hood for a first and a development project... so Philly for a first and Korkmaz... something like that... we have to do it right if he leaves.
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There will be a big tankathon to get into the top 4 next year, sorta falls off after that. Someone might emerge, but looking at the DX mock there is a massive gap between #4 (Mo Bamba) and #5 (Miles Bridges).
 
So I'm guessing I'm the only one here that doesn't feel like we're in a full rebuild mode if Hayward doesn't stay? Love the guy and hope he does stay with the Jazz but I don't think the sky falls so quickly without him here. We have talent, a lot of which was hurt for big portions last season.
 
stitches said:
What's the move you think that will make Hayward stay? Do you think adding Ricky Rubio sways him one way or the other?
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No, because he's buddies with Hill. If Jazz sign a vet PG, I think he'd want it to be George.
I'm not sure there's a move one Utah could make. It's not like we can trade for Lebron or Durant.

If Hayward wants to be the #1 option on a quality playoff team, he'll stay. If he wants to be a 2nd or 3rd option because he has fond memories of his college coach, he leaves. The grass isn't always greener, but Boston probably gives him the best chance of making it to the Finals.
 
Ron Mexico said:
All reports are that Hayward prefers a longer contract regardless of where he goes. What gives you the idea that he wants to sign a 1 +1? I wouldn't trade Exum but all the other assets are disposable ones that won't set us back if they are gone. We will be in the same boat.
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Link? I haven't heard any such reports.
 
Ron Mexico said:
All reports are that Hayward prefers a longer contract regardless of where he goes. What gives you the idea that he wants to sign a 1 +1? I wouldn't trade Exum but all the other assets are disposable ones that won't set us back if they are gone. We will be in the same boat.
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Tbh, I don't have a ton of faith in the kid that got bumped down the depth chart by Shevlin Mack.
 
Shocker00 said:
Rumor of what Boston is offering for PG13

"I'm told #Celtics offer to IND for George is LAL/SAC pick from PHI, '19 MEM OR LAC pick, Crowder, $$ filler (Zeller pop name, Bradley poss)."

That's coming from Adam Kaufman
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What are the details on those picks? Is just whichever is best Indiana would get?

Hood has more upside than Crowder I think or at least are about even in terms of value. Hood is 2 years younger and has been in the NBA 3 less years. Their stats are fairly similar right now. I would be bummed to lose Mitchel (didnt know anthing about him until we drafted him but ya'll go me excited) But Mitchell, Hood, Diaw and OKC pick is better than that offer right? Plus they can get it now not wait and see.

As far as picks go is the OKC pick plus either our next years 1st round pick or the year after with a top 3 protection worth as much? If not offer 3 picks or throw in seconds.

Diaw and Zeller are fairly similar assets since both can be waived essentially to clear cap space although I am guessing Indiana would use both to try to take a salary dump for another asset.
 
In breaking news, i'm working on trying to land J-Lo and Olivia Wilde in a three-way by the free agency deadline. I reckon i've got nearly the same chance as the Celtics getting what they want
 
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