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The Caravan

Really. Really.

I wonder why there are not grand caravans of thousands of people trying to get into Russia, China.... or Venezuela so far as that goes...…

we must really be some kind of monster nation. sounds that way, from all the propaganda run out in here.
 
babe said:
you might be the perfect expert on "stupid", indeed. We should all just sit down and listen, I'm sure.

Obama, Pelosi, Reid had nothing to do with causing the increases in health premiums. Trump did that while sitting and watching Fox News in his little TV room in one of his little dives. He is soooooo influential, he is responsible for everything, even stuff that happened before he stole the 2016 elections...…. sure.

"nationalism" is always there to some extent in anyone's thinking, even you, when you discuss our particular country and bemoan anything you think isn't right, or brag about anything that is right in your view. If you think of yourself as an "American" you're saying you're a "nationalist", or you'd be bragging instead about being something you think is better..... say a "globalist" maybe.

Lots of otherwise "Trump supporters" don't like his tariffs, he even says he doesn't like them. He's looking for a deal, using leverage..... some countries have come to the table to meet some of his ideas, and agreements have been re-done, somewhat..... in Trump's mind.... "better for the US". The Chinese are very good at bargaining. Trump is asking for huge issue changes, like letting US innovators have their proprietary rights to their inventions, patents, and such. A lot of Chinese "business" is actually heavily "state-owned". People wanting to set up factories there have to concede trade information and technology rights, and overnight a Chinese competitor sets up using that information.

I'm afraid China's Xi is making a move for world dominance, truly expansionist in trade and international alliances. He's got hundreds of thousands of "extra" male citizens. He's promoting the idea of importing brides and sending men abroad to find mates. Chinese culture is perhaps the most "nationalist" in the whole world. In every way they promote the idea of racial and national superiority.

Xi literally calls his nation the "chosen people", the "great people". Koreans are another "nationalist" and racial superiority sort of culture. Xi is calling Koreans and Vietnamese superior to others on account of significant racial congruity across millennia of migration/intermarriage.

I run into this nationalist pride directly in my business. And of course, the Japanese are that, too. In the Philippines there is a nationalist Christian religion, one a breakaway from the Catholics that is run by filipinos, another a breakaway from the Mormons who hold that Felix Manalo is the prophet of the last days and the Filipinos are God's chosen people.

When Trump says is a "nationalist" he means, simply, that he intends to put our national interests ahead of globalist ideals or deals that give away our advantages with the intent to create a brave new world where our country is deliberately no longer dominant. He means, simply, that globalism doesn't mean more to him than the American people who elected him.

Obama wouldn't say that, nor would Hillary or Bernie.
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The problem with Globalism is authoritarian control. However, if we could have a truly democratic global community, it would be a boon to planet earth -- ending the incessant military campaigns and conflicts (most of them influenced by the U.S.) and exercising sane environmental practices. This was the original intent of the United Nations, which ended up being controlled by a few nations, so ending up with authoritarian control and dominance by banks and financial interests.
 
NPC D4617 said:
This

The hostility from the right is unbearable. Every tv channel, every city street. Its everywhere. The right are violent people.
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Well, most acts of domestic terrorism come from right-wingers, but it's not fair to extend that to everyone on the right.
 
babe said:
Obama, Pelosi, Reid had nothing to do with causing the increases in health premiums. Trump did that while sitting and watching Fox News in his little TV room in one of his little dives. He is soooooo influential, he is responsible for everything, even stuff that happened before he stole the 2016 elections...…. sure.
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None of the above. Health insurance premiums have been rising well above inflation since at least the 1990s, for reasons that have little to do with government policies.

babe said:
If you think of yourself as an "American" you're saying you're a "nationalist", or you'd be bragging instead about being something you think is better..... say a "globalist" maybe.
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I'm patriotic, but not nationalistic.

babe said:
Xi literally calls his nation the "chosen people", the "great people". Koreans are another "nationalist" and racial superiority sort of culture. Xi is calling Koreans and Vietnamese superior to others on account of significant racial congruity across millennia of migration/intermarriage.
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I don't aim to imitate aspects of Chinese nor Korean culture that I don't approve of.
 
Zombie said:
The biggest driver of right wing extremist violence is racist animosity, which is in a variety of ways fostered and encouraged by much of the leadership of the republican party. That, to me, is the biggest difference between the two sides.
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The main reason you claim that racial animosity is fostered by the republican party is that you are listening to the left who says that it is. One thing the left is very good at is stoking this furnace. They attempt to define any negative interaction between people of different races as racism.

A black person was killed by a cop? Racism!

Illegal immigrants were deported? Racism!

A non-white person was jailed for drug distribution? Racism!
 
Zombie said:
The biggest driver of right wing extremist violence is racist animosity, which is in a variety of ways fostered and encouraged by much of the leadership of the republican party. That, to me, is the biggest difference between the two sides.
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The main reason you claim that racial animosity is fostered by the republican party is that you are listening to the left who says that it is. One thing the left is very good at is stoking this furnace. They attempt to define any negative interaction between people of different races as racism.

A black person was killed by a cop? Racism!

Illegal immigrants were deported? Racism!

A non-white person was jailed for drug distribution? Racism!
 
Stoked said:
False equivalence.

Not all leftists adore Obama. Just like not all right wingers adore Trump.
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Fair point, but I can find plenty of crazed lunatic uninformed Obama supporters, just like I can for Trump. I figured if I posted this sort of stuff people would say it wasn't current enough.
 
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JimLes said:
Whoa, one example from over a year ago where no one died? That's the same as 3 examples from one week and a dozen dead. And people holding rallies? That's totally as bad as a mailing bombs.



Ok, I'll play. What exactly are Bowers and Sayoc fighting for then? More rights for us Jews?
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You call this a rally?
I could find much, much more like that.

It's probably not a good idea for you to measure which party is better by how much carnage the people on it's farthest extreme create. It might be true that you could win that argument on some parameter today. For all we know, tomorrow could be a completely different story. All it takes is one whackadoodle who claims to be on your side to completely mess up your argument.

Bowers and Sayoc are mentally ill. Asking the right to explain their actions is as productive as asking the left to explain this:
 
@Joe Bagadonuts

Yes, there are crazy Obamaites out there. We all know it. But as a comparable group they are not similar to me in tone, anger and aggression. Pointing out a few cases doesn’t change to overall tone of a group of millions.

I agree, it’s not a good idea to compare when one side has clearly, as shown by facts, cost America a far higher price in lives lost. Over years and years.
 
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Joe Bagadonuts said:
All it takes is one whackadoodle who claims to be on your side to completely mess up your argument.
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Only you seem to believe that one video somehow completely messes up years of data showing otherwise. By that logic, there's no difference between Curry and Rubio as shooters because hey, here's a video of Ricky hitting a three at some point. Since both Rubio and Curry hit some threes some of the time, they're both the same.

source.gif
 


Just one of the many many examples of right wing media using disgusting rhetoric that feeds directly into the narrative of people like Sayoc and Bowers.
 
Stoked said:
https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/1805864002

Pentagon is sending 5,000 troops to the border to stop the caravan.
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Do we know it's illegally? I feel like we can't know until they get to a port of entry to officially request asylum. There's nuances, but they should be legally allowed to apply. I just don't buy that all 4,000 fleeing are criminals.

https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/research/asylum-united-states

So 5,000 troops, on top of what we've got on border patrol already. Seems excessive. But perhaps our commander in chief is sending them down to help process applications, and not something like open fire on largely civilians that are already running for their lives.

Right?
 
Harambe said:
Do we know it's illegally? I feel like we can't know until they get to a port of entry to officially request asylum. There's nuances, but they should be legally allowed to apply. I just don't buy that all 4,000 fleeing are criminals.

https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/research/asylum-united-states

So 5,000 troops, on top of what we've got on border patrol already. Seems excessive. But perhaps our commander in chief is sending them down to help process applications, and not something like open fire on largely civilians that are already running for their lives.

Right?
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I would he absolutely shocked if there's any actual bloodshed as a result of this. I think it's largely performative. Trump created a lot of fear about this caravan and now is trying to look tough and in control by committing troops. This is about optics going into the midterms, nothing else.
 
Zombie said:
I would he absolutely shocked if there's any actual bloodshed as a result of this. I think it's largely performative. Trump created a lot of fear about this caravan and now is trying to look tough and in control by committing troops. This is about optics going into the midterms, nothing else.
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It's highly unlikely. It's a posturing move. I get it. And if there was an order to open fire on civilians en masse, would our troops even do it?

I dunno. But I'd prefer not finding out.
 
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