Trade deadline discussion

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Another piece of evidence that we kinda messed up the cap stuff... we sent Tucker to Cleveland and it cost us a second rounder... we got a little cash in the deal but we could have just waived him... why didn't we just waive him? because he had a small amount of his salary that was guaranteed and would count against the cap... like $450k. Why give away another pick like that if you aren't trying to clean the cap up a bit?

Yup, it was weird then, but I guess we all thought the new owner was going frugal, which happens.

Now that he's shown he's willing to spend to the extent of blowing cash on guys like Ersan just for w/e lockerroom/vet presence he brings, and now getting a guy like MattThomas, why the hell did we pinch pennies there? Did winning really completely change the owner's mind?

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Don’t know if someone already mentioned this...but if the Jazz really thought they could use another shooter on a cost controlled contract, why did we not just draft Desmond Bane?

Because they liked someone else more.

I'm not saying he's the next Rudy, but maybe he is? Maybe the Jazz had the same kind of workout with Dok that they did with Rudy. When the Jazz drafted Rudy I thought it was a total blunder and waste of a pick as well. Can we just give the dude a chance before we bring it up constantly as a red mark on DL?

A late first round draft pick doesnt have to contribute right away to be a good pick.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

It will forever be a mystery just like the Mike Conley benching that was announced and then Quin just changed his mind. Do you really think a multi million dollar team would not communicate with one another and just botch that? Impossible! A coach just changed his mind... nothing to see here.

Yeah, people can change their minds man. It's not really that big of a mystery.

I know where the money is spent when it comes to salary cap... its basically public ****ing knowledge. We put ourselves in a spot where we were slightly over the tax. Did Ryan know... probably. Does he know the full cap sheet and ramifications of being in the repeater tax... maybe, but he also trusts someone in the front office not to **** that up. The guy ain't filing his own tax returns... he has people for that.

You explain this dynamic and changing environment but any dumbass with excel and understanding could tell that if we use the full MLE along with the contract we handed out to JC would put us just above the tax once you met the minimum roster requirements... we were over by like $500kish but with no places to cut because everyone was a minimum guy. So lets say you ask Favs to take $300k less and JC to take $300k less this year... is that a deal breaker? I'm guessing not. If it was is Favs the only backup center that can possibly fill that role... there were a **** ton of guys we could have got that made a little less... there were guys available at the minimum.

Even if they had to have Favs and JC at the numbers the got... The other route would have been to slide down in the draft from 27 to a mid 2nd rounder. Would have shaved 1.2M and got us under the tax. I am sure the love Dok so much they had to have him... but they also brought in a guy on a big contract for three years right after drafting him... so how confident were they really.

In the Conley deal there were not a lot of suitors... Detroit, us, or he could stay in Memphis. We paid full price and then some... even after those assholes strung us out at the trade deadline and leaked out the trade.

This summer we used several second round picks to offload centers. One we drafted when we already had 2 established centers... then we brought in another in Udoh because we didn't trust a rookie. We continued picking up his rookie deal even though we clearly didn't trust him. Eventually we use a second to dump the option we picked up.

I didn't say they were incompetent. I explained what I meant by sloppy. Ending up a couple million over the tax when you had opportunities to duck it is sloppy spreadsheet work... sorry. Using seconds to clean up several backup center messes only to use your first round pick and MLE on backup centers is sloppy. There were years we operated at or below the salary floor rather than using excess cap space... kinda sloppy.

We really bitching about getting Conley for as cheap as we did again?

 

[LoPo]

We really bitching about getting Conley for as cheap as we did again?

2 1st round picks, Jae Crowder, Grayson Allen, Kyle Korver and a massive chunk of our cap space for the two years before the Don and Rudy extensions wasn't "cheap".

Year 1 - Jae Crowder by himself was more valuable than Conley

Year 2 - I'm very encouraged by what I see, but Conley will be graded on what he does in the playoffs.

Nobody is bitching about the Conley trade anymore, but the deal hasn't been totally evaluated yet. Sure as hell wasn't "cheap".

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

2 1st round picks, Jae Crowder, Grayson Allen, Kyle Korver and a massive chunk of our cap space for the two years before the Don and Rudy extensions wasn't "cheap".

Year 1 - Jae Crowder by himself was more valuable than Conley

Year 2 - I'm very encouraged by what I see, but Conley will be graded on what he does in the playoffs.

Nobody is bitching about the Conley trade anymore, but the deal hasn't been totally evaluated yet. Sure as hell wasn't "cheap".

He's been one of the best players in the NBA this year. Shut the ever living **** up about Conley.

The deal now has the Jazz as the best team in the entire NBA for the first time in the franchise's history. Even if the Jazz aced the draft. Even if Jae Crowder stayed in Utah and returned to Boston Jae Crowder. Even if Grayson Allen developed into the player he is now with Memphis despite not getting playing time, the Jazz would still be worse off if they didnt do the trade.

ANd you have the gall to be like "Oh I'm encouraged". How pathetic can you be? Your *** only comes out the cave to troll about trades. You arent even a real fan who can enjoy the team winning because they are doing it largely because of two players (Gobert and Conley) that you spent so much of your energy generating BS fake trades for. FOH

Honestly go be a Thunder fan. They got half the league's draft picks in the next handful of years. You can enjoy constant speculation about how to become good without the actual stakes of having anything on the line.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Yeah, people can change their minds man. It's not really that big of a mystery.

We really bitching about getting Conley for as cheap as we did again?

I didn’t want to complain but didn’t like being called simple and naive... so just explaining my issues with the front office operations.

You even said it yesterday... did we really need to throw a second to take a flier on Thomas? I think there have been like 10 situations like that in DL’s tenure where I say “well that seems like a little more than I thought”.

He’s also had some really good ones too... Only giving up Lyles to move up in the draft... the JC deal was good obvi.

 

[LoPo]

He's been one of the best players in the NBA this year. Shut the ever living **** up about Conley.

The deal now has the Jazz as the best team in the entire NBA for the first time in the franchise's history. Even if the Jazz aced the draft. Even if Jae Crowder stayed in Utah and returned to Boston Jae Crowder. Even if Grayson Allen developed into the player he is now with Memphis despite not getting playing time, the Jazz would still be worse off if they didnt do the trade.

ANd you have the gall to be like "Oh I'm encouraged". How pathetic can you be? Your *** only comes out the cave to troll about trades. You arent even a real fan who can enjoy the team winning because they are doing it largely because of two players (Gobert and Conley) that you spent so much of your energy generating BS fake trades for. FOH

One of the best players in the NBA? Spare me. If Conley wasn't playing with Rudy and Don in a 3rd role, he would have yet again missed an all star game. He would have missed the all star game if it wasn't for loads of ASG absentees. That's not a knock against but the truth.

Conley has had a great season. I'm very happy and appreciative that he has. But Jae Crowder would have helped us more last year than Conley ended up helping us.

I've only posted on the forum a few times in the last few months. I'm happy with this team. I threw out a "pie in the sky" Jerami Grant involving Bojan based on reports. You can cry all you want about my posts, but your attempt to belittle me is so lame. I'm in support of this roster and Conley.

Go after somebody else. You have no basis for complaining about me here. I'm 100% right about Conley to this point. He will be evaluated on what he does this postseason. We're a playoff team without him. Are we a playoff advancing team because of him? We shall see.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Don’t know if someone already mentioned this...but if the Jazz really thought they could use another shooter on a cost controlled contract, why did we not just draft Desmond Bane?

Shrug... was the guy I wanted but 4th string centers are super important.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I didn’t want to complain but didn’t like being called simple and naive... so just explaining my issues with the front office operations.

You even said it yesterday... did we really need to throw a second to take a flier on Thomas? I think there have been like 10 situations like that in DL’s tenure where I say “well that seems like a little more than I thought”.

He’s also had some really good ones too... Only giving up Lyles to move up in the draft... the JC deal was good obvi.

The (lack of) Lowry deal shows that GM's can be petty and not willing to deal assets if they arent getting what they see as fair value, even if there isnt another competitor out there willing to offer that against what you're offering. That's essentially what happened the first time the Jazz tried to get Conley and it was a huge cost. Maybe the Jazz are where they are now last year if they get Conley earlier and integrate him. You cant just sit on your hands and not make moves. Scared money dont make money.

I'm not trying to say Dl is above critique, but I just think the Conley one is so played out, especially with the results we are getting as being the best in Jazz franchise history.

 

[LoPo]

The deal now has the Jazz as the best team in the entire NBA for the first time in the franchise's history.

The Utah Jazz had the best record in 1996-1997. We had the tie break over the Bulls due to head to head.

1997-98 NBA Standings | Basketball-Reference.com

Checkout the latest 1997-98 NBA Standing including Conference and Division Standings, Expanding Standings, Team vs Team Stats and more on Basketball-Reference.com

www.basketball-reference.com

Will you admit you're wrong? Doubt it.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

The (lack of) Lowry deal shows that GM's can be petty and not willing to deal assets if they arent getting what they see as fair value, even if there isnt another competitor out there willing to offer that against what you're offering. That's essentially what happened the first time the Jazz tried to get Conley and it was a huge cost. Maybe the Jazz are where they are now last year if they get Conley earlier and integrate him. You cant just sit on your hands and not make moves. Scared money dont make money.

I'm not trying to say Dl is above critique, but I just think the Conley one is so played out, especially with the results we are getting as being the best in Jazz franchise history.

Fair. That’s one where he’s been proven right.

I just think it’s funny when people think these guys are above reproach and may never miss a detail... remember the “Brooks” trade debacle? Two front offices both backed by millions of dollars and billionaire owners messed up the player they agreed to trade. They ended up backing out of the deal.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

The Utah Jazz had the best record in 1996-1997. We had the tie break over the Bulls due to head to head.

1997-98 NBA Standings | Basketball-Reference.com

Checkout the latest 1997-98 NBA Standing including Conference and Division Standings, Expanding Standings, Team vs Team Stats and more on Basketball-Reference.com

www.basketball-reference.com

Will you admit you're wrong? Doubt it.

Being tied for the best aint the best captain

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

One of the best players in the NBA? Spare me. If Conley wasn't playing with Rudy and Don in a 3rd role, he would have yet again missed an all star game. He would have missed the all star game if it wasn't for loads of ASG absentees. That's not a knock against but the truth.

Conley has had a great season. I'm very happy and appreciative that he has. But Jae Crowder would have helped us more last year than Conley ended up helping us.

I've only posted on the forum a few times in the last few months. I'm happy with this team. I threw out a "pie in the sky" Jerami Grant involving Bojan based on reports. You can cry all you want about my posts, but your attempt to belittle me is so lame. I'm in support of this roster and Conley.

Go after somebody else. You have no basis for complaining about me here. I'm 100% right about Conley to this point. He will be evaluated on what he does this postseason. We're a playoff team without him. Are we a playoff advancing team because of him? We shall see.

Bitch was he an All-Star yes or no?

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Lopo you've been 100% wrong about Conley. You are being completely dishonest if you act like you arent his biggest hater.

 

[LoPo]

Being tied for the best aint the best captain

We hosted the NBA Finals. So yeah, we had the best record in the NBA. Even if we were tied, it's still the best record in the NBA. Man you're obtuse.

 

[LoPo]

Lopo you've been 100% wrong about Conley. You are being completely dishonest if you act like you arent his biggest hater.

He was a disappointment last year. I'm 100% right in my assessment that he was a disappointment last year. Hell, even he probably thinks he was a disappointment last year.

I'm not a Conley hater. I'm a Conley realist. You're a Conley apologist and fanboy.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Yup, it was weird then, but I guess we all thought the new owner was going frugal, which happens.

Now that he's shown he's willing to spend to the extent of blowing cash on guys like Ersan just for w/e lockerroom/vet presence he brings, and now getting a guy like MattThomas, why the hell did we pinch pennies there? Did winning really completely change the owner's mind?

Being a little wishy washy on the small finances doesn’t give me a ton of confidence he gonna open up the coffers this offseason to keep the whole team together.

I actually think it’s more likely they were trying to duck the tax and then realized it was going to require another move that was hard to make... so then either said **** it fill out the roster or DL was like “ I don’t want to be like 400k over the tax cuz that will look dumb... let’s add some guys and be 3M into the tax and talk about how great Ryan is and how willing he is to invest”.

 

[LoPo]

I actually think it’s more likely they were trying to duck the tax and then realized it was going to require another move that was hard to make... so then either said **** it fill out the roster or DL was like “ I don’t want to be like 400k over the tax cuz that will look dumb... let’s add some guys and be 3M into the tax and talk about how great Ryan is and how willing he is to invest”.

Exactly. We have the best record in the league. It would have been a terrible PR move to make the trade necessary to avoid the luxury.

Boston did it because they are sitting below .500. They probably don't move Theis if they had a top 2 or 3 record in the East.

My bet is that Bogey or Conley are gone this summer unless we win the West or the Finals. I don't see us staying a $140 million repeat luxury tax payer unless we are truly contending for titles. The FO will say they were willing to go into the luxury, but if it doesn't pay off this postseason, there is no reason to do it again for the same team.

 

[One Brow]

What about Tony Bradley? He's had 21.1 PER and a .244 WS/48. A pretty qualified backup center by your standards?

I haven't seen him play this year. These numbers are better than a year ago, much better than 2.

So why not check out some non-rate based stats like BPM or net rating to see how well Favor's doing this season? I can tell you it ain't pretty.

He's in the top 20 centers (all centers, not just backups) on BPM (and yes, so is Tony Bradley).

And we "play the same defense with him on the court as with Gobert"? If you don't have time to watch games, just follow andy larsen on twitter and he will watch games for you.

I do watch Jazz games, and yes, we still chase shooters off the 3 and funnel them to Favors when he's in. However, if you have something from Larsen that says otherwise, I'll read it. I mean, Larsen did say this, which seems pretty close to what I am saying.

Now, we should note that the full season numbers aren’t bad: 108 defensive rating on the year during Favors’ minutes — not as good as Gobert, obviously, but good enough. Playing backup center to Gobert is always going to be a tough job because the Frenchman is just such a defensive star, he’d make anybody look lackluster in comparison.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Exactly. We have the best record in the league. It would have been a terrible PR move to make the trade necessary to avoid the luxury.

Boston did it because they are sitting below .500. They probably don't move Theis if they had a top 2 or 3 record in the East.

My bet is that Bogey or Conley are gone this summer unless we win the West or the Finals. I don't see us staying a $140 million repeat luxury tax payer unless we are truly contending for titles. The FO will say they were willing to go into the luxury, but if it doesn't pay off this postseason, there is no reason to do it again for the same team.

I think we try to keep Mike on a 2 year deal somewhere between 20/25M per. Once you have that commitment they look at what they can get for Bogey, JC, Favs and decide where we can get the best return and where we can replace production the cheapest. The Matt Thomas trade may be a tiny hedge for next year. You will have a guy that should be familiar with how we play and be ready to contribute.

If we get bounced in the first or second round it could get ugly.